Should you ever admit you are carrying?

In some states you are required to inform LEOs that you are carrying. I would hesitate to draw any conclusions from the referenced case, as there are wildly conflicting versions of that story going around and we do not have all the facts yet.

I only inform a police officer if I am present in one of the 11 states that require notification upon official LEO contact. Otherwise, I'll remain silent unless directly asked by the officer.

As to other than law enforcement, I never disclose that I'm carrying. Agree with the comments of Sergei Mosin on that referenced case.

kkayser said:

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

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I guess it depends on who you tell.

I have on occasion. Usually a friend or relative when we were out. Sometimes only to make sure one of us is. Then the other can have a drink or two.

Also during a friendly conversation with a LEO customer at a gun shop I frequent who stated he could always tell if someone was carrying. He guessed wrong.

Sometimes it comes up at family and friend gatherings when those women have to hug everyone.




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kkayser said:

IMHO, no, unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer. Then be sure your hands are visible. In concealed carry class we were told to inform a police officer if we were stopped for some unrelated reason. Someone did that and was repaid with four bullets into him, resulting in his death. If he had said nothing he would probably be alive today.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

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oh common now! don't believe all you hear on the news. story I heard was guy was open carrying in a car and told cop, cop said don't touch it and guy went for it. again you or I weren't there so don't know what happened so before you start a war on here preach facts not fiction news puts out 99% of the time.

kkayser said:

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

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Statements like this are so lame, they do not deserve a response.

I think there is more to the story yet to come from Minneapolis.
Today on the news it said there was a gun on or next to his thigh.
The whole video thing is too weird.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I don't even really know what to make of this.

IF the tale turns out to be exactly what you said it was, then the guy the deceased DID tell was a police officer, so your "unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer" caveat seems utterly pointless.

I cannot possibly imagine what other situations almost any of us would come across where "admitting" we're carrying would give anyone else we're talking to "gives them a reason to kill you."

So, the old lady at church who hugs you too tight and says, "Oh my! Are you carrying a gun?" ... now she wants to kill you?

You think joe average shopper at WalMart who isn't a gun guy or gal and who notices your sidearm now has a reason to kill you? And ... so what? They probably aren't armed so unless you're concerned they're going to bean you with a jumbo sized bottle of Tide, you're probably ok. If they were gun carrying types they'd probably be pretty cool about yours.


So whom, aside from law enforcement officers you very well may be legally required to tell anyway, is going to have a reason to kill you just because you're armed?

Your dentist? The mailman? The mall Santa?

No

Only to a cop

i open carry so hard to hide it

No. Nothing good ever comes from letting someone without a badge in an investigative stop or a close friend who needs to know know. I know; I've been burned by it.

In SC anyone with a permit must inform LE that they are carrying if stopped and show the document. Otherwise no; concealed means just that, always.

Only tell a cop if stopped....Never say I have a gun. Hands on the wheel inform him you have a ccw.Everything is cool from there.

Kahr cw9 my everyday carry....

Last I checked, after years with no incidents with legal carriers, the requirement to notify was dropped in TN. I do believe that, since my HCP and TDL are the same number and HCP status is noted in the TDL records, when an officer runs my tag number before he gets out of the patrol car he knows the truck is registered to TDL Num. blah-blah who is a permitted carrier. I do place my hands in open view on top of the steering wheel before the officer approaches the car and make no movements unless asked to.

Info on the Minnesota situation is tricklimg in. Philando Castile was driving with girlfriend Diamond Reynolds in the passenger seat and her 4 y.o. daughter in the back when he was pulled over for a broken rear light.
The officer asked for his license and registration.
Castille informed the officer he was licensed to carry and had a gun in the car.
Reynolds stated: "The officer said don't move. As he was putting his hands back up, the officer shot him in the arm four or five times."

Officer says "don't move" after being informed you have a gun, that does not mean "put your hands back up" -- it means don't move. To someone who is keyed up any motion may be interpreted as a "furtive movement".

I don't even really know what to make of this.

IF the tale turns out to be exactly what you said it was, then the guy the deceased DID tell was a police officer, so your "unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer" caveat seems utterly pointless.

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Castile allegedly volunteered the information; the LEO did not ask, and in MN we are not required to inform. And I don't (unless he asks, and they never do) because I don't want a jumpy cop shooting me or slamming my face into the pavement.

kkayser said:

IMHO, no, unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer. Then be sure your hands are visible. In concealed carry class we were told to inform a police officer if we were stopped for some unrelated reason. Someone did that and was repaid with four bullets into him, resulting in his death. If he had said nothing he would probably be alive today.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

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There are conflicting reports.

"according to his Facebook posts, he was a gang member. They weren’t pulled over for a busted taillight. They were pulled over because he matched the description of an armed robber who held up a store 4 days prior.

Oh, and he didn’t have a concealed carry permit, and the gun he was carrying was resting on his thigh below his shirt."

http://iotwreport.com/blmleftist-philando-castile-shooting-narrative-is-falling-apart/

"The Falcon Heights, Minnesota police shooting of Philando Castile is based around an entirely false narrative. Castile and Ms. Diamond Reynolds (Facebook video uploader) were pulled over by police because Castile matched a BOLO Alert for an armed robbery suspect from four days prior."
Reynolds claimed they were pulled over for a broken tail light, false.

Ms. Reynolds also claims her boyfriend, Castile, was holding a concealed carry permit for a firearm that was resting on his left thigh. This also appears to be false.

"According to a question presented to the local county sheriff who oversees the Concealed Carry Permit process, Mr. Castile had never requested a concealed carry permit from their office"

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...lse-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

IMHO, no, unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer. Then be sure your hands are visible. In concealed carry class we were told to inform a police officer if we were stopped for some unrelated reason. Someone did that and was repaid with four bullets into him, resulting in his death. If he had said nothing he would probably be alive today.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

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Contrary to what some people might think, cops are not shooting armed blacks for the heck of it. I take offense to that notion.

Anyway, in most traffic stops there shouldn't be any need to inform the police that you are carrying unless the law requires it or you have to reach somewhere where the officer will see your firearm.

Although not really necessary, I consider it a courtesy and if done properly it doesn't cause me any alarm. IMO, the best way to do this is to hand over your permit and license together and not say anything about a firearm. The officer will likely ask where it is and tell you not to put your hands in that area.

If you don't have a permit to hand over I would suggest something like the following: "Sir, I just want to let you know that I have a firearm in the vehicle. How would you like me to proceed?" It's not a speech, just be calm, courteous, and keep your hands visible.

I was asked once by a LEO if I had any weapons after being stopped for a stop sign violation. I said, no.
As far as I'm concerned it's none of their business.

"Conceal" doesnt just mean in the physical sense to me. If you are hiding a weapon, it doesnt make much sense to declare that you have it (unless required by law). Why hide something, only to proclaim its existence?

I've had 1 touchy interaction with a state patrol officer while conceal carrying, riding my motorcycle. He asked if I had a weapon, I responded "Yes sir, I have a legal conceal carry pistol". He was edgy, but I remained respectful and asked him how he wished to proceed. He had me remove my jacket to access my drivers license/permit, which was in the same pocket (oops) as my carry piece. No one got shot. Go figure.

shafter said:

Although not really necessary, I consider it a courtesy and if done properly it doesn't cause me any alarm. IMO, the best way to do this is to hand over your permit and license together and not say anything about a firearm. The officer will likely ask where it is and tell you not to put your hands in that area.

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That is exactly what I will be doing.

That is what many prominent folks who are an authority on CC advise as well.

Someone did that and was repaid with four bullets into him, resulting in his death. If he had said nothing he would probably be alive today.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

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I think that your conclusions are fatally flawed.

Cops round here like folks with CHL's ..... or LTC's since 01/01 ... Every time I'm pulled over I inform the officer of the fact the I possess a CHL and if I do have a weapon with me which has been 3 times out of 4 stops ill let him know where it is. I'm pretty sure in Texas when you're stopped it comes up on their computers anyways... By the way.... four stops, 2 speeding and 2 seatbelt violations... no tickets... I'll keep doing it my way until it stops working lol

From a couple of group e-mails I sent out (not going to modify for the forum):

I again saw the Facebook video (Castile case) on the news last night and this comment from his girlfriend got my Spidey sense tingling.

Here are her exact words shortly into the video:
He let the officer know he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet.

Now I’m sure the gal may have been in shock, and there’s a good chance if you ask her what happened five times, you’re going to get five slightly different descriptions (that’s just the nature of most witnesses), BUT just roll her statement over in your head.

He let the officer know he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet.

I’m sure lawyers will have a field day with this one?

Exactly how did he let the officer know he had a firearm (what language was used)?

Based on her quote, imagine you’re the officer and are told this:
“I have a gun” as you reach for your wallet / ID.

In her comment she says he let the officer know he had a gun, but we don’t know if he let the officer know he was reaching for his wallet (could be taken either way based on her imprecise comment).

If you watched the Massad Ayoob video from my earlier e-mail, you’ll recall at the 1 minute mark the following conversation:
Ayoob: The old advice of tell the officer “I’VE GOT A GUN” is going to have a very negative….
Gresham: Well what’s your reaction if… “I’ve got a gun.”
Ayoob: “ME TOO” (as he steps back and draws his).

I’m wondering if something like this isn’t exactly what occurred in the Castile case?

I tell you this not to assign blame to either party (the courts will figure that out), but simply to remind you if you carry a firearm, you need to LEARN HOW TO SURRENDER / COMPLY.

As I told you in my earlier e-mail, I NEVER mention the word GUN to an officer.

Every time I’ve been pulled over, the first thing out of the officer’s mouth when he approached was can I see your driver’s license and registration?

I don’t say a word so there’s no chance of misinterpretation or a failure to communicate.

I simply place my CHP on TOP of my DL and hand both to the officer and wait for his instructions.

AND FINALLY

With all that’s going on these days, AND comments I see from some of the pundits / activists on TV on the Sunday talk shows (I fear for their children), perhaps it’s time we all take a short refresher course on how to interact with the police from Chris Rock.

CAUTION: Language, so not for work or around your kids (although you need to pass these tips on to them)!

They say the best satire has a basis in truth – that being the case, this is some of the best I’ve seen!

How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked (or these days, shot) By The Police
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQDvYOt_iA

My driving has nothing to do with my carrying a gun. Police officers will get my driving related papers and no conversation. Theyre not pulling me over to be my friend. Sorry.