Combat Shotguns: Dying?
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
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geo57
Member
I'm not pretending to do anything. I copied the last part of your quote at the top word for word and changed nothing. The only part of your quote that I used in my last sentence was placed in quotation marks . Those are your words. The rest of that sentence are my words.
You honestly believe that unless 00 Buck is fired from almost contact distance that it's not a reliable stopper ? Seriously ?
And again, if the shot on the squirrel with 00 Buck was a failure to stop due to the round's fault how do you know that it was even hit solidly without a carcass to examine ?
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Kendal Black
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#1 buckshot is a good compromise. It may be the best overall.
A pistol caliber carbine is a poor choice over a shotgun. Pistol calibers are not man stoppers. Buckshot to the chest is pretty much lights out. Massive shock to the CNS.
If you hit the CNS.
One thing in favor of the pistol caliber carbine is that it'll likely be the least loud. A shotgun or 5.56 fired indoors is going to disorient the person firing it more than a 9mm Beretta Storm. The extra barrel length will also add some authority to the round.
Really though, any of them will work plenty well enough.
goon said:
That is true of course with any firearm but with a 12 Gauge shotgun, you can get around 9 chances with a 2.75 inch round of 00 Buckshot
Even with an 18 inch barrel with cylinder bore choke at around 10 yards (and certainly closer), I suspect a target will receive most to all of a buckshot load on a hit.
danez71
Member
So after 9 pages, have we come to the point of critical mass yet?
To sum up the 9 pages,
1) Different tools are better suited different specific scenarios
2) Different tools offer different flexibility,
3) Even in a single geographic location, such as HD, different scenarios can happen,
4) Neither is, by default, more effective until you know the scenario/circumstances,
5) The use of either doesn't guarantee squat,
6) The use of either is better than some other tools and better than nothing,
7) The rise in popularity of AR type weapons has acquired market share from shot guns for HD,
8) The shotgun now, is no less effective than it was 20+ years ago, and arguably more effective as improvements have been made in both gun and ammo,
9) And, as my daughter said when she was about 8, different people like different things.
To sum up the 9 pages,
1) Different tools are better suited different specific scenarios
2) Different tools offer different flexibility,
3) Even in a single geographic location, such as HD, different scenarios can happen,
4) Neither is, by default, more effective until you know the scenario/circumstances,
5) The use of either doesn't guarantee squat,
6) The use of either is better than some other tools and better than nothing,
7) The rise in popularity of AR type weapons has acquired market share from shot guns for HD,
8) The shotgun now, is no less effective than it was 20+ years ago, and arguably more effective as improvements have been made in both gun and ammo,
9) And, as my daughter said when she was about 8, different people like different things.
two gun charlie
Member
he was hit at about the hairline according to how I heard it so it went over the skull and ended in the neck somewhere , I still can't believe the story but someone showed me pics of it , still cant believe it but stranger things have happened
point i am making is that in combat it comes down to more than just the gun , calibre and training , there is literally thousands of other factors that also play a role , most of which we don't even think about let alone control
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geo57
Member
two gun Charlie, thanks the info.
two gun charlie
Member
mmmh yeah but please note that readers should not try to do this at home
the aforementioned stunt was performed by a professional rioter with years of experience and similar results cannot be guaranteed
1) Shotguns are passe, and only good for historical artifacts. Anyone that would use one for combat (including home defense) is an unkempt Luddite.
2) Carbines are hep and with it. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge their overwhelming awesomeness is retarded, which is why they can't take classes to begin their carbine ninja metamorphosis.
Smart girl. That's level 1 of the realization. By the time she's about 12 she would probably add ...And that's fine. It's just those who insist that what THEY like is the only reasonable choice, and if YOU don't like what THEY like, YOU are an id!ot. Those are the people you mostly want to avoid in life...
FAS1
Member
For me, my handgun mounted next to my pillow is primary, but my shotgun always stays loaded and ready in my safe. My wife would go that direction if we needed to retreat in the middle of the night.
My shotgun is not going anywhere soon! It's a Beretta 1201FP.
My shotgun is not going anywhere soon! It's a Beretta 1201FP.
Hearing wise, I do not find shotgun blasts to be nearly as punishing as a 16" barrel .223. The much sharper crack of the rifle round is MUCH more painful than the lower boom of the shotgun. I've shot waaaay too many rounds of rifle, shotgun, and to a lesser extent, handguns in my life without ear protection back in the day (fortunately I'm not seeing any resulting hearing-related issues yet), and the shotguns are much milder to my ears. Even less than a 9mm.
Sheepdog1968
Member
I'm sure the Romans were having the same debate in Latin and didn't reach a conclusion either. And so it goes ......
Another misconception.
Auditory exclusion will likely cancel sounds during any life-threatening event.
You'll more likely suffer from tunnelvision than disorientation from any bangs coming from your own firearm.
Speaking from personal experience, when running away from incoming arty rounds, all I remember hearing was the sound of my own heartbeat.
AI&P Tactical
Member
Longest thread I have seen on a shotgun forum for a long time. I doubt anyone has had a change of mind. They either get it or don't. It is good to see some action on a forum as things have been dead. I should also mention that once all the AR's are banned or have to be loaded from the top like in CA, the shotgun owners will be sitting there with a big grin.
Bottom line is have something, anything to defend your home and family with. Because as we all know, when seconds count the Police are minutes away.
Bottom line is have something, anything to defend your home and family with. Because as we all know, when seconds count the Police are minutes away.
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HighExpert
Member
What do you think of the new EAA Witness 12gauge? It looks like and has the controls in the same spots as the AR15. 5 and 10 round mags available. My brother just bought one and the trigger is even very good, for a shotgun.
HighExpert
Member
The gun is the MKA 1919 Match. The gun was $479 from gunbroker.
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Not exactly. I am going to lose the ability to enjoy my customized modular semi autos for the outdoors, hiking, hunting, camping, etc
So its not all about home defense.
I only take a rifle when I take a long gun camping, hiking or backpacking because I can put up to 10 rounds in it when I backpack through national forests where I run into illegal marijuana grows, and other things, miles removed from other people. I am officially hunting and have a hunting license. This means I am limited by the hunting laws.
Shotguns however are legally limited to 3 rounds when hunting, 2 if you don't want to hike with 1 in the chamber and risk it discharging on a drop (blowing a hole in your leg in the middle of nowhere is not a good idea.)
A shotgun with 2 rounds is not going to replace my ~8 pound AR-10 with 10 rounds and lighter ammunition.
They weigh within a pound of each other typically with a typical upland shotgun, and the AR-10 has much better range, 5x the legal capacity (2 without 1 in the chamber vs 10), and points and shoots well. I am not really trying to kill any animals most of the time and would rather enjoy watching the wildlife than shooting it, I just like to be armed while I am in the middle of nowhere, especially if i am taking loved ones with me and responsible for their safety as well.
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NO. You will get hydrostatic shock as well. You just need to hit COM>
FL-NC
Member
For HD I think a reliable handgun with a light mounted is the best option, at least for inside the home. Take a look at your home from the inside. What is the maximum distance you can even have the visibility to take a shot? Any shooting that is going to happen will likely be at very short range and "jump off" in the blink of an eye.Also a handgun is much easier to manage when doing secondary tasks like locking, opening, or closing doors, smashing a window to make an escape, using the phone, performing self-aid or buddy aid, etc. The handgun is also easily hidden when not in use due to its size. The pistol caliber carbine is a terrific option- especially at these typically shorter distances. Remember that they served just fine in the hands of our special ops and SWAT teams (and still do in some cases) for a long time. Yes, they are next to worthless for longer distance engagements, which aren't typical of HD scenarios unless you live "in the sticks"- in which case something like an AR would be preferred. A shotgun generally requires 2 functioning hands/arms to operate efficiently- a handgun, and to a certain degree a pistol carb, or possibly even the AR, someone with moderate skills could produce effective fire with an injured or otherwise occupied hand/arm.
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Panzerschwein
member
Pistol caliber carbines used by SWAT?
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