What has the Nice attack told us now!

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Old Guy

Old Guy

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I just watched a big truck drive down a road into a mass of people, innocently watching a firework display. Driven by a 31 year old Nice resident, of Tunisian heritage. Guns and Grenades were in the cab with him.

He was shot dead by Police? But I saw Camo dressed men (Soldiers?) in the crowd.

The only way we can look after our Family, is to be armed in public, because an attack takes place in public! The general public must be ready to fight back, on the scene! And we must carry pistols that, will be able to supply many, powerful rounds, the least you can carry is a 9mm pistol, with at least a 15 round magazine in your pistol. And In my case, a 17 round spare magazine.

A 5 shot revolver will not do it!

It works in Israel, the IDF, young people, carry their weapons, on leave, in public! We will get used to seeing this.

We here in Florida, go to open carry, Rifles! Pistols concealed. Open the gun clubs to Rifle classes, free, or a reasonable amount, $50.00. When you pass that class, you get waterproof ID. It would be hung on your rifle sling.

A red band across it, with a number. Your concealed pistol, concealed.
The Police seeing this ID know you are trained, and legal.

I have a Steyr AUG, in my car, it never stays outside my Jeep, it lives in the Garage.

My AUG has only to be snapped together, 1 minute. 30 round mag in it, with a sling on it. Once I placed it in a secure spot in my Jeep. I forgot it. But it is ready, where ever I am, it is with me.

Am I paranoid? No, but I will need it maybe, so not having it, is not good.
Not having it in my safe, but having it in my Jeep, is a good thing.

Watching this attack in Nice? Has woken me up!
 
What has the Niece attack told us now!

Could that kind of attack be stopped by a good guy with a gun? It seems like even if someone were able to be certain enough of his intentions as he sped toward the crowd, and have time to react, the truck could have kept on rolling.

There are some attacks that could be stopped or at least stopped sooner than the police could do, but unfortunately this doesn't seem like one of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So far I only watched one video of what happened. French police were shooting at the terrorist through the truck's windshield, but if any of them were shooting at the tires I did not see that. Would shooting out the tires have helped, or made things worse? Is there actually any reliable way to stop a moving vehicle by means of gunshots? If not, is there another portable method that police could have?

Also, it occurs to me that even if they got him with a head shot so he died instantly, if his foot was still on the gas the truck would have kept going, in fact if this was well-planned that possibility would have been taken into account and his foot somehow fastened to the gas pedal beforehand. ???
 
As I said on another forum.

If you had multiple civilians with a sidearm and they shot at the cab they likely would have distracted the driver and hopely drawn him out of the safety of his truck. With several civilians with their handguns in various spots and various elevations and distances it is likely he would have been neutralized before he could do much damage with a semi automatic rifle.
 
What does this particular attack seem to illustrate? Sadly, there are many methods to do great harm to large amounts of innocent people. Airplanes, arsen fires, bombs, driving a truck through a crowd.

"Common sense" restrictions on semi-automatic firearms and detachable box magazine limits will not solve tragedies such as this event.

I feel the French people need a break. They have had more than their share of these types of attacks. I do not know how the truck was eventually stopped. I find it unlikely that a citizen possessing a handgun could have affected the outcome of this attack.

Swanee
 
You would think that France after having the previous attacks would have thought about a vehicle attack, a barricade was needed. It's ashame that they couldn't have shot that guy sooner. Assault trucks need to be banned. I have never herd of or seen an attack where a semi auto rifle has killed that many people is such a short period of time. Maybe the lies will now see that the weapon is not the problem.
 
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From the video, right before he accelerated into the crowds there was someone (police maybe) driving next to the cabin, then police are seen in front, then the guy hit the gas.

I assume they waited to fire because the guy wasn't driving more than 10mph, maybe they thought he was just lost or didn't know the road was shutdown...who knows.

But once they did start shooting.....this isn't the movies, hitting a driver who is driving fast and erratically with an incapacitating shot is close to impossible. Reports are he wasn't killed till the vehicle stopped and he got out with a gun.
 
SwaneeSR said:
What does this particular attack seem to illustrate? Sadly, there are many methods to do great harm to large amounts of innocent people. Airplanes, arsen fires, bombs, driving a truck through a crowd.

"Common sense" restrictions on semi-automatic firearms and detachable box magazine limits will not solve tragedies such as this event.

I feel the French people need a break. They have had more than their share of these types of attacks. I do not know how the truck was eventually stopped. I find it unlikely that a citizen possessing a handgun could have affected the outcome of this attack.

Swanee
Click to expand...
The majority of the terrorist attacks in Israel are stabbings and car rammings.

And DeBlasio recently cited the increase in stabbings in NYC as proof that the strict gun control laws there are working. (I am not making this up.)
 
old lady new shooter said:
The majority of the terrorist attacks in Israel are stabbings and car rammings.

And DeBlasio recently cited the increase in stabbings in NYC as proof that the strict gun control laws there are working. (I am not making this up.)
Click to expand...



That is sad. I guess regardless of the facts, some politicians will contort statistics to meet the narrative they want to promote.

Swanee



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Tobinator said:
Could that kind of attack be stopped by a good guy with a gun? It seems like even if someone were able to be certain enough of his intentions as he sped toward the crowd, and have time to react, the truck could have kept on rolling.
Click to expand...
The latest report I saw on TV said he drove for over a mile down the promenade. I don't think he could have done that if he were dead.

At least the death toll would have been lower. It's now up to 84.
 
SwaneeSR,

what exactly would be the difference between "bullets form the police that stopped the driving" be vs. "bullets from armed civilians that stopped the driving" ?

I just fail to see that.

Oh, wait, I found out: THE TIMELINE.
Yes, that´s it!

LATE Police seems to be worse than EARLY civilians, if such things are done over a prolonged time span.


And while France certainly deserves a pause in that kind of bad things I feel I deserve three million dollars per month.

Wishful thinking helps only if combined with real action...and I fail to see the problem-related action France is taking.

It´s still the same old -and often enough proved wrong- concept of the "Allmighty State will protect you all!"
The concept is a proven failure, since you cannot protect a whole People with just a few cops or soldiers if the enemy is attacking from within. Heck, the whole of France is just a giant pile of soft Targets! (as are Germany, the UK and most of the EU States...)

That terrible stuff will just continue to happen, crying politicians are by no means suited to change the strategic situation.

My condolences to the victims and all of their loved ones.

Carsten
 
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Coming soon to a venue near you.

Avoiding large crowds in designated victim zones would seem prudent.
 
I don't see anything magical about taking out the driver if one was properly armed.
A personal observation I've made over the years is the huge amount of foreign truck drivers we have in this country. I deal with a fair number of them and I'm amazed that some can understand the traffic signs let alone the laws. Something to think about when your driving down the road.
Times are changing and some of us have taken a beating here when we talk about high cap handguns and keeping long guns close by but these things just keep happening and are ever evolving.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
carsten1911 said:
SwaneeSR,

what exactly would be the difference between "bullets form the police that stopped the driving" be vs. "bullets from armed civilians that stopped the driving" ?

I just fail to see that.

Oh, wait, I found out: THE TIMELINE.
Yes, that´s it!

LATE Police seems to be worse than EARLY civilians, if such things are done over a prolonged time span.


And while France certainly deserves a pause in that kind of bad things I feel I deserve three million dollars per month.

Wishful thinking helps only if combined with real action...and I fail to see the problem-related action France is taking.

It´s still the same old -and often enough proved wrong- concept of the "Allmighty State will protect you all!"
The concept is a proven failure, since you cannot protect a whole People with just a few cops or soldiers if the enemy is attacking from within. Heck, the whole of France is just a giant pile of soft Targets! (as are Germany, the UK and most of the EU States...)

That terrible stuff will just continue to happen, crying politicians are by no means suited to change the strategic situation.

My condolences to the victims and all of their loved ones.

Carsten
Click to expand...
In this case, as in Dallas, police were already there when the attack started, because they were tasked with securing the event.
 
X-Rap said:
I don't see anything magical about taking out the driver if one was properly armed.
A personal observation I've made over the years is the huge amount of foreign truck drivers we have in this country. I deal with a fair number of them and I'm amazed that some can understand the traffic signs let alone the laws. Something to think about when your driving down the road.
Times are changing and some of us have taken a beating here when we talk about high cap handguns and keeping long guns close by but these things just keep happening and are ever evolving.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
A British sniper just recently took out with one shot two ISIS bombers who were in a moving vehicle.

BUT: So far no one has addressed my question as to whether taking out the driver would have stopped the truck. If his foot was firmly on the gas I think the answer is no.
 
What this attack and others have illustrated to me is that it is not enough to only carry a firearm. Other items may not allow you to save the day, but may allow you to live, and save the day tomorrow.
Shoes instead of flip flops, clothes that you can run/jump in.
 
Old Guy said:
The only way we can look after our Family, is to be armed in public, because an attack takes place in public! The general public must be ready to fight back, on the scene! And we must carry pistols that, will be able to supply many, powerful rounds, the least you can carry is a 9mm pistol, with at least a 15 round magazine in your pistol. And In my case, a 17 round spare magazine.

A 5 shot revolver will not do it!



We here in Florida, go to open carry, Rifles!
Click to expand...

Yep, just what we need, excited, emotional civilians emptying their high capacity weapons, firing into a crowded venue, trying to play cops.
 
old lady new shooter said:
A British sniper just recently took out with one shot two ISIS bombers who were in a moving vehicle.

BUT: So far no one has addressed my question as to whether taking out the driver would have stopped the truck. If his foot was firmly on the gas I think the answer is no.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, perhaps not. People do strange things when shot. But who knows.

At the least, taking out the driver would have removed directional control from the truck, which would likely have then run off the road.

composite-nice-map.jpg
 
Killing the driver would be the first step in stopping a truck. It is the brains of the thing.
I've seen motors run a long time with a hole blown out of a cylinder and no piston. A motor can go quite a ways before coolant runs out so the radiator isn't a quick stop.
You'd have to flatten all the tires and the truck could still probably keep going although it would be slowed considerably.
A truck is a very effective weapon if you can stay alive.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
old lady new shooter said:
So far I only watched one video of what happened. French police were shooting at the terrorist through the truck's windshield, but if any of them were shooting at the tires I did not see that. Would shooting out the tires have helped, or made things worse? Is there actually any reliable way to stop a moving vehicle by means of gunshots? If not, is there another portable method that police could have?

Also, it occurs to me that even if they got him with a head shot so he died instantly, if his foot was still on the gas the truck would have kept going, in fact if this was well-planned that possibility would have been taken into account and his foot somehow fastened to the gas pedal beforehand. ???
Click to expand...

To try to address the bolded questions..

Shooting out tires would help but not stop. The LAPD just used the spike strips 2 days ago and the lady in the toyota drove for few/several more miles.

Gunshots generally don't stop cars/trucks.

Using other cars to block him seems to have the best chance other than shooting the guy and hoping the cruise control wasn't on. It looked like several cars (probably not police) were driving away from the jackhole.


Side note: division HQ is in Nice
 
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Something like this happens so fast that by the time you realize this isn't grandma mistaking the gas for brake the car as already plowed on by you. Guns stop crime, but let's not get delusional here.
 
shafter said:
Something like this happens so fast that by the time you realize this isn't grandma mistaking the gas for brake the car as already plowed on by you. Guns stop crime, but let's not get delusional here.
Click to expand...

Cops figured out what was happening and reacted--a mile and a quarter down the road. It is a relevant question whether civvies could have responded sooner, by virtue of being on the spot.

I have some question whether I would have figured out what was happening in time to react, but if a truck has run down a knot of people and is now heading for my group, perhaps the powers of inference would kick in in time to tell me something isn't right.

I have a further question about how many good guys it takes to stop a truck by engaging the driver with gunfire. Just what did the cops do here, and how many were there, and how were they armed?
 
It's a sad reality but this will probably take some pressure off guns. I hope people will realize that there are many ways evil can strike that can be far more lethal than a gun.
This was a fairly small truck, imagine a big rig full of gas, anhydrous ammonia, or propane that is rigged with some sort of detonator.
We'd be looking at hundreds or maybe thousands.
I don't want to dance in the blood of those killed but we must let people know that eliminating guns will not bring peace and safety.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
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