While maybe not a good idea, really arrested?
- Thread starter Jeff H
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Hanzo581
Member
While the guy was 100% wrong in this case.....can we not call the firefighter out for ignoring the sign, not to mention knocking at 8:30pm?
MIL-DOT
member
Oh please, gimme a break
. I'm sure you're more aware than most how many "crimes" the average law abiding citizen "violates", every single day.Damned near EVERYTHING is a 'crime', these days. it's gotten completely insane.
On the way to the guy's house, the fireman must've passed a few hundred vehicles driving over the speed limit, and was probably doing it himself. He may have passed a bunch of illegal aliens assembled on a street corner looking for day-laborer work.
He may have passed a shop owner sweeping his store dust out into the sidewalk and street. Maybe he passed a kid's front yard lemonade stand and didn't see a buisness license posted !!!! Probably aslo passed a vehicle with windows too tinted and in violation of a noise ordinance.
All of thse are illegal, and technically "crimes" (we can cite more examples of "crimes" we all witness daily, till the sun goes down)
Should the fireman call in all of those, too? (the law's the law, right??)
There doesn;t seem to be any indication the guy was intending to threaten anyone (and he was taken into custody without incident).
The fireman could have and should have just smiled and waved, and said, "I guess that's a 'no' ", and gone to the next house.
But NOOOO, he just has to go squealing to anyone that will listen, turning this into a big federal case and national news, and this guy's life completely de-railed, all because he had a gun in his hand, in his own home. Big deal.
I don't care if it was technically against the law, this is nonsense.
Just a few short decades ago, the cops would've looked at the fireman and said, "you're kidding,right? You seriously called us for THIS ? Go pull a cat out of a tree, ya moron".
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
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^ ^ ^ I get your rant, but, remember: It's New York.
And... a firearm should never be presented unless it's time to pull the trigger in an attempt to prevent grave bodily injury or death. Otherwise, as has been noted numerous times already in this young thread, the act is considered menacing, brandishing, etc...
In other news...
Tirod! of all folks, typed, "irregardless". Come on! Tirod?
^ ^ ^ I get your rant, but, remember: It's New York.
And... a firearm should never be presented unless it's time to pull the trigger in an attempt to prevent grave bodily injury or death. Otherwise, as has been noted numerous times already in this young thread, the act is considered menacing, brandishing, etc...
In other news...
Tirod! of all folks, typed, "irregardless". Come on! Tirod?
There is absolutely no comparison between driving over the limit and the reckless exhibition of a firearm.
I hope you are kidding. Waving a handgun around is in itself a threatening action. It is an excellent way to get shot in self defense.
It's not that it's "technically" against the law.
What on earth gives you that idea?
Just a few short decades ago, people were bringing convicted of aggravated assault in gun friendly Arizona for simply placing their hands on guns under their garments when they were not justified in shooting other people.
They have changed the law to allow for the lawful defensive display of a firearm.
But that is only permissible if force is justified.
confused in Ohio ...
I agree that this whole gun show-off at the house door/porch was totally unnecessary and shows us in a bad light.
I don't have concealed carry, so I am not that much familiar with those laws, but it is my general understanding that most likely everywhere ( all States), just showing your gun to someone who is not clear and imminent danger is punishable, meaning that you cannot answer the door with gun in your hand or pull a gun in the public to scare somebody who may have bad intents based on your "just in case " estimate.
( I read article recently where a woman was arrested for doing something like that at Walmart's parking lot - guy " was acting suspicious")
If this is correct ( and I am aware that I may be wrong), then why some of the gun magazines are (or kind of) encouraging this type of behavior by constantly printing stories from their readers, that quite often go like this:
" I was walking alone ( or with wife/girlfriend) in xxxx City, and it was a dark street/alley. I noticed two individuals following us, I turned around and unholstered my xxx gun. You should have seen their faces before they ran away ! "
I am not saying that being in the same situation as those "dark street walkers", I would not necessarily do something similar, but is that even legal ?
No intend to offend anyone here, just asking a question .
I agree that this whole gun show-off at the house door/porch was totally unnecessary and shows us in a bad light.
I don't have concealed carry, so I am not that much familiar with those laws, but it is my general understanding that most likely everywhere ( all States), just showing your gun to someone who is not clear and imminent danger is punishable, meaning that you cannot answer the door with gun in your hand or pull a gun in the public to scare somebody who may have bad intents based on your "just in case " estimate.
( I read article recently where a woman was arrested for doing something like that at Walmart's parking lot - guy " was acting suspicious")
If this is correct ( and I am aware that I may be wrong), then why some of the gun magazines are (or kind of) encouraging this type of behavior by constantly printing stories from their readers, that quite often go like this:
" I was walking alone ( or with wife/girlfriend) in xxxx City, and it was a dark street/alley. I noticed two individuals following us, I turned around and unholstered my xxx gun. You should have seen their faces before they ran away ! "
I am not saying that being in the same situation as those "dark street walkers", I would not necessarily do something similar, but is that even legal ?
No intend to offend anyone here, just asking a question .
zxcvbob
Member
I haven't read the whole thread, but the "menacing" charge sounds legit to me. But I think the possession charge is BS because he was still within the curtilage of his home.
entropy
Member
If I'm not expecting company, I answer the door armed. It's either CCW or behind the door, but armed nonetheless. I believe what you meant is poor idea in showing it, right? I'm in agreement with that, though I see nothing wrong with answering the door open carry where that is legal. (Which it is here in WI.)
Remembering, of course, that there's a big difference between a gun carried in a holster and a gun in the hand being waved around (and yes, I consider a gun being used as a pointer to be waving the gun around).entropy said:
See post 24.dekibg said:
The details matter. It will all depend on exactly what happened and exactly how it happened.dekibg said:
Again, please see post 24 and the thread linked to in that post. The issue will be whether all the circumstances of an incident can legally justify a defensive display of a gun.
Quote from Mil-Dot :
"Just a few short decades ago, the cops would've looked at the fireman and said, "you're kidding,right? You seriously called us for THIS ? Go pull a cat out of a tree, ya moron".
Not a very nice thing to say about firemen's profession, while they do much, much more every day than just rescuing cats ( like saving lives).
It would be like telling to a LEO " go and arrest a jaywalker ! "
and why that "ya moron " thing ?
I am surprised that you feel that this should go unreported ...
"Just a few short decades ago, the cops would've looked at the fireman and said, "you're kidding,right? You seriously called us for THIS ? Go pull a cat out of a tree, ya moron".
Not a very nice thing to say about firemen's profession, while they do much, much more every day than just rescuing cats ( like saving lives).
It would be like telling to a LEO " go and arrest a jaywalker ! "
and why that "ya moron " thing ?
I am surprised that you feel that this should go unreported ...
Speedo66
Member
Had you read the entire thread you would have seen that I pointed out in NY you can't just "possess" a handgun without a license, even in your home. Every handgun you legally own is listed on your license.
zxcvbob
Member
Thanks. I had skimmed the thread, but I missed your post. I thought that law had been overturned after Heller. Also from the article (emphasis added):
http://tinyurl.com/jcrdhfc said:
When I come to the door to answer it, I come to the door armed, simply because I always carry in the house--concealed.
Yes indeed, BUT...
If there is any reason whatsoever to expect that there is someone on the other side of the door is likely dangerous, placing oneself right in front of the door is really not very prudent.
A much better way to answer the door is with an intercom. It is even better--much better in fact--to have a camera view showing not only the person who is knocking at the door, but also whomever may be standing next to the door out of sight, ready to force his way in.
old lady new shooter
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Not a good idea around here, a lot of people who think they're entitled to other people's stuff knock on the door to see if anyone's home, if no one answers they proceed to go around the back and break in. If someone answers some of them make up a story attempting to get the homeowner to let them in, others only want houses with nobody home so they make up something innocuous like asking you where a certain address is. BTDT, multiple times.
old lady new shooter
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FRANK:
A few months ago there was a case where a BG started trying to break into a house, the owner held up his gun so BG could see it through the window, BG left. Does this count as "assault"?
A few months ago there was a case where a BG started trying to break into a house, the owner held up his gun so BG could see it through the window, BG left. Does this count as "assault"?
Canadian law, interesting. Trying to break in, in the act of breaking in, unlawful, retaliate.
Broke in, actually inside, trespassing! First ask them to leave.
Had some one once yank on my screen door, here in Orlando 3AM, it opened, made a noise that woke me up. I called 911? Half asleep.
Six Deputy's arrived in 7 minutes? Not kidding, 6! Three vehicles. The 911 dispatcher asked me (calling me by name?) to please leave my gun upstairs when answering the door for her Officers.
First time I had used 911 in the 10 years we had lived here. Two of them cleared the down stairs/garage. The others chatted. Also called me by name?
My tax dollars at work.
Broke in, actually inside, trespassing! First ask them to leave.
Had some one once yank on my screen door, here in Orlando 3AM, it opened, made a noise that woke me up. I called 911? Half asleep.
Six Deputy's arrived in 7 minutes? Not kidding, 6! Three vehicles. The 911 dispatcher asked me (calling me by name?) to please leave my gun upstairs when answering the door for her Officers.
First time I had used 911 in the 10 years we had lived here. Two of them cleared the down stairs/garage. The others chatted. Also called me by name?
My tax dollars at work.
Here in Colorado what he did is menacing, and since he used a firearm it is a felony.
420Stainless
Member
I'm inclined to agree with the sentiment that reporting it was silly. It's one thing when you run into strange people doing dangerous things in a public area, but deliberately going to someone's door when they posted that they don't want you there and didn't otherwise invite you there is entirely different. I'm sure I wouldn't like the guy that lives in the house, but I wouldn't blame him for the action I took in exposing myself to his behavior in the first place.
If the report is accurate, what he reported was a dangerous criminal act.
Not at all like some harmless misdemeanor that happened to violate a municipal code.
Why would you think that? Do you think it permissible for someone to to act in a reckless and dangerous manner on one's own property because one does not "want" someone to be there?
Do you remember Ward Bird, the man who approached a trespasser with gun in hand in gun-friendly New Hampshire and ended up in jail as a convicted felon?
No one is blaming the man for any action that the fireman took. Nor did the fireman "expose himself" to anyone else's "behavior".
He is being blamed--and charged--for a criminal act on his part.
Speedo66
Member
Seven minutes is a pretty long response time, in a city or suburb that would be considered an eternity.
If you're more rural, then I guess you have be prepared to take care of business yourself.
Arkansas Paul
Member
No such thing sir.
Being here a short amount of time does not mean a thing. We encourage respectful debate, even if it is contrary to the majority. You're fine.
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