AR build parties

I think the reaction rod comment is because different billet uppers, depending on their exterior dimensions, may or may not fit into whichever upper vice block you have. But, a reaction rod will always be able to mate up with the barrel extension.

taliv said:

nate, very cool build! i'm working on something like that myself


grampa, yep and thanks. I'm a big fan of the KMR and have built several rifles with them. You lost me on the billet upper comment though. Why do they need a reaction rod?

definitely allowing all types including varmint. the "carbine course" is really just a couple hours to familiarize them with the concepts of mag changes and malfunction drills. I'll loan them a carbine if they can't safely manipulate their 20lb bench gun

will definitely review people's BOMs to make sure they are going to work.

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As far as I know, that's the only way to install the barrel nut on a billet upper. I've never seen an upper vice block made for billet receivers, and even if there were you'd have to have one for every different receiver on the market, whereas the reaction rod will work with all of them. Magpul also makes something called a bev block, but the reaction rod is far superior.

If a billet upper will fit on an AR lower, it will fit on an upper receiver vice block

For such a wide range of possibilities, I would simply make a list of the required parts, then give general descriptions of each overarching type of build. Carbine, rifle, target rifle, competition rifle, pistol etc.

I also would encourage folks to look for used parts. I built my rifle for about 400 bucks using a new lower, lpk, bcg, and barrel. Everything else was used and CHEAP but decent stuff. If a person wants a basic rifle, I bet they could put one together for about 350...new parts would basically be a lower, mag release and safety switch, and a bcg. You can find everything else used pretty easy from folks who swap the other stuff, often without ever firing the rifle. So call everything half off on the used side....and if a man hosts build parties he probably will know folks who want to move used parts.

MistWolf said:

If a billet upper will fit on an AR lower, it will fit on an upper receiver vice block

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I'm assuming you're talking about those DPMS blocks. Those are fine for certain things, but they're not okay for installing barrel nuts or muzzle devices. They place way too much stress on the receiver, especially if you're going up towards 80 ft lbs. There's a reason why not many people use them.

Using a Reactor Rod will place stress on the barrel pin because the Reactor Rod will not keep the upper from turning while torquing the barrel nut.

The upper block I've got has a ridge going up into the upper to give it more support.

If the muzzle device is so difficult to remove that a vise block should not be used, a set of barrel vise blocks clamped near the muzzle are needed.

If it takes so much torque to install a muzzle device that using a vise block will damage your upper, you're using far too much torque.As a field expedience, I've held an upper between my knees to R&R muzzle devices.

The r real reason so many use the Reactor Rod is because the upper can be repositioned without removing the Reactor Rod from the vise

I've never heard of the Reactor Rod, but it sounds like a knockoff. The Reaction Rod from Geissele (the one with the NSN number) is by far the best tool for the job. You're not going to hurt anything as long as you stay inside the 80 ft lbs max. It's used by untold numbers of armorers and no issues.

The DPMS style block puts all the stress on the takedown lugs, which weren't meant for that. It's the absolute worst tool for the job. People report snapping off the front takedown lug with those on a regular basis. I can't imagine why they still sell them.

If you don't want to spring for the reaction rod, then your next best option is to put the receiver into the vice sideways with some sort of stiff padding. Cutting boards seem to work the best. I've never tried this, but it's reported to work. Personally, I would just spend the 100 bucks on the reaction rod. You'll look more professional, nothing will get broken, and you'll be more likely to get good word of mouth.

I would consider the Lightweight and Basic Home Defense builds to be the same thing, and would use a 16" Faxon Gunner barrel (nothing wrong with the BCM ELW barrel that someone else recommended either, but the Faxon is cheaper), Aero upper, PSA/Toolcraft BCG, PSA/Aero lower, PSA LPK, 7075 receiver extension, and H2 buffer, and BCM KMR-A handguard. The stock and pistol grip really come down to personal preference, so either leave it up to them, or just spec basic M4 furniture from PSA. I'm not real picky on the gas block or gas tube either... just go with a steel one from a reputable mfg. that can be purchased from a vendor you're already using for other parts. A2 flash hider.

For the DMR, the only thing I would change is to make it a LaRue Stealth barrel (16" would be my preference if you're going to recommend a length). Magpul MOE fixed rifle if you're going to spec a stock.

For the pistol, the only things I would change (other than a pistol receiver extension obviously) is to make it a BCM 11.5" ELW barrel and 10" KMR-A handguard.

If you're going to recommend sights, I'd say Magpul MBUS 2s, with an option for the Magpul MBUS Pro rear sight if a lower profile option is needed for scope clearance.

Here are a couple of mine that are similar to the Lightweight/Home Defense setup and the Pistol setup I described:

taliv said:

thanks nastynate!

guys, i'm really just crowdsourcing templates to make it easy for n00bs. for example, if they like the way nate's rifle looks, here's the list of stuff to go buy to build one like it.

Click to expand...

OK, That I can help with.

SPR/GP rifle:

James Madison Tactical 80% Lower
Aero Upper
AIM NP3 BCG
Odinworks 15.5 Keymod rail
Magpul ACS stock and MOE Grip
Phantom flash hider
Troy BUIS
Primary Arms 1-6 ACSS in an ADM QD Mount

#2:

Anvil Arms forged lower
Generic keyhole upper
Parallax Tactical 15" Rail (I'm not as huge a fan of this rail. Too heavy)
Magpul CTR stock and Ergo Grip
Primary Arms 1-6x ACSS in an ADM OD Mount
Daniel Defense sling mount on the buffer tube
Magpul B.A.D Lever
Troy AMbi Mag release
Ambi Safety
Streamlight TLR-1

Pistol/SBR setup (Stamp pending):

5.56:


Polymer 80 80% lower
Model 1 Sales upper and 10.5" Barrel
YHM handguard and gas block/folding front sight
Ergo Grip
Phase 5 pistol buffer tube and Sig Brace
Magpul rear BUIS and hand stop
TLR-1
Primary arms Micro dot on a ADM QD Mount

9mm:

Spikes Tactical lower
Spikes Tactical Mag block
Aero Slickside upper
Samson Rail
NP3 ramped 9mm bolt
7.5" 9mm Barrel
KAK Flash Can
KAK Pistol buffer tube and Sig Brace
Ergo grip
Spikes Tactical Enhanced LPK (NP3 trigger/hammer and ambi safety)
EOTech

Varmint:

Anvil Arms Forged Lower
Generic (I don't recall) keyhole forged upper
E.R. Shaw 1" stainless bull barrel w/ target crown
Houge free float handguard
PSG1 style grip and A2 stock
Geissele SSA-E Trigger
ATN Gen 1 4x night scope (Although I have a SWFA Super Sniper 16x around here somewhere for it, I've been using it for nocturnal pests lately)
Versa-pod. (Just because my Harris is in use elsewhere)

Just because you can setup:

Anvil Arms forged lower
A2 stock, filled with lead and epoxy
Magpul MIAD grip
Safety Harbor Heavy hammer and spring
mil-spec LPK
SWFA Super Sniper fixed 20x
BOHICA .50 BMG Upper. (This upper is currently unavailable. I had to mod mine a little, but it works well now. If I were doing this build today, I'd use a Safety Harbor Upper)

grampajack said:

I've never heard of the Reactor Rod, but it sounds like a knockoff. The Reaction Rod from Geissele (the one with the NSN number) is by far the best tool for the job. You're not going to hurt anything as long as you stay inside the 80 ft lbs max. It's used by untold numbers of armorers and no issues.

The DPMS style block puts all the stress on the takedown lugs, which weren't meant for that. It's the absolute worst tool for the job. People report snapping off the front takedown lug with those on a regular basis. I can't imagine why they still sell them.

If you don't want to spring for the reaction rod, then your next best option is to put the receiver into the vice sideways with some sort of stiff padding. Cutting boards seem to work the best. I've never tried this, but it's reported to work. Personally, I would just spend the 100 bucks on the reaction rod. You'll look more professional, nothing will get broken, and you'll be more likely to get good word of mouth.

Click to expand...

When I said reactor rod, I meant reaction rod. The DPMS upper vise block I've got has a part that supports the upper part of the upper. Very little of the force will actually be transferred to the takedown pin holes.

The reaction rod holds the upper by the barrel extension. When the barrel nut is tightened, the only thing keeping the aluminum upper from turning is the locator pin on the barrel. All the stress from tightening the barrel nut is concentrated there.

I've used both tools to install barrels. The ONLY advantage to the reaction rod is that it's easier to remove the upper from the tool to either start a new upper, or to rotate the upper to get a better angle. I've used both fixtures for installing AR barrels. I've also used a barrel vise to install FAL barrels. As a professionally trained aviation technician with decades of experience performing mechanical tasks using tooling and fixtures, I know what I'm talking about

What a cool idea Taliv.

If I lived near you I'd be in on this. I have an m4 type AR but I can always make room for another.

I want to build a rifle geared toward accuracy

I have a standing offer to lend tools and experience to anyone in the Tampa Bay area that want's to assemble an AR.

Doesn't need to be a "party". Let your friends know, there's always someone that wants a new rifle.

I proposed a "community interest" AR class to teach at a community college. I had enough students commit to fill the first class, and was confident I wouldn't have trouble filling one and possibly two classes per year. I said I would teach it for free, and that I would supply all of the training materials for free. I had an appropriate, isolated, and available part on the campus where it could be taught. I did a very nice job writing it up, along with citing my credentials, and submitted through the proper channels and processes. It got denied without cause.

Over is past Memorial Day, I built a nice, no frills, solid 16" carbine from PSA, for $508 total cost. It shoots great and has been 100% reliable.

PSA Blem Classic Lower = $139 shipped + transfer = $165
PSA Freedom Melonite 1/7 upper = $189 shipped
PSA Freedom M16 BCG with charging handle = $104 shipped
Magpul rear sight = $50

I'm glad I did it, when I did. The upper and lower that I bought have been pretty much out of stock since Memorial Day.

It took all of 30 seconds to assemble it, once I had the upper, lower and BCG. Its childs play.

So did everyone come with a bag of parts and leave with a complete rifle?

Awesome idea!

Where bout in tn is this going on?

Since the lower swap is pre-planned and not spontaneous, how are these not straw transfers?

Mike