Engraving SBR Lower...

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SilentStalker

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
1,588
Location
Somewhere in the U.S., London, or Australia
For those of you that have bought a pistol of some sort and them form 1'd it, what did you do after the engraving process? Like what kind of finish did you put on it? I am fixing to do an MP5 clone and the engraving will of course take the finish off. Do I just spray paint it or go get the whole thing cerakoted or what? The cheaper the better.
 
I used Birchwood-Casey's Cold Blue or Aluminum Black depending on the underlying material.

Others I've seen fill it in with a white wax pencil or paint to highlight it.
 
I engrave a lot of lowers for people. Whatever most companies are using for a finish is crap and won't engrave well at all. Have it stripped and cerakoted before you have it engraved. Cerakote engraves beautifully.
 
I had someone do my HK receiver with a laser. It came out great. I don't think they re-coated it after but it looks good. I wouldn't change it. Iv'e done AR's and AKs with a dremmel since there isn't much resale value.
 
Trouble with using a laser is, it doesn't actually cut, it just removes the paint. ATF requirements are .03 deep, which is exactly what an engraving diamond cuts.

Laser engraving works beautifully on lowers, as long as you're not trying to meet legal requirements.
 
Larry Ashcraft said:
Trouble with using a laser is, it doesn't actually cut, it just removes the paint. ATF requirements are .03 deep, which is exactly what an engraving diamond cuts.

Laser engraving works beautifully on lowers, as long as you're not trying to meet legal requirements.
Click to expand...
A sufficiently powerful laser can certainly meet the engraving requirements by removing the base metal. Problem is that most engraving shops don't have such a laser.
 
A sufficiently powerful laser can certainly meet the engraving requirements by removing the base metal. Problem is that most engraving shops don't have such a laser.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have anything to do with power, rather the type of laser. Most trophy shops use C02 lasers, which won't cut metal at even 100 watts. YAG lasers will cut metal, but you're more likely to find one of those at a machine shop.
 
I had mine laser engraved and it definitely cut through the anodize and into aluminum, over .003" deep. It did take multiple passes though. (Rofin laser marking system.)
 
Iv'e done AR's and AKs with a dremmel since there isn't much resale value.
Click to expand...
^^This

Once its in the registry its a hassle to transfer ($200 tax, all mine are bequeathed to family and friends in my will to avoid the transfer tax down the road) and if you remove it from the registry you then have a defaced receiver with little resale value.

OTOH if they freeze SBRs the way they did Machine Guns, then who knows?

Initially I did my first few on my friends CNC mill, but once I realized this, I just do them by hand. Doesn't look very good, but so what? Lay it out with pencil and go over it repeatedly until its plenty deep enough.
 
OK, my engraver is 20 years old, so maybe things have changed. I do know I could make multiple passes for a week and it won't even touch the metal. It will etch glass, by making microscopic fractures in the surface, but it doesn't remove any. A single pass at full power will cut about 1/16" deep into wood, and it can be adjusted down low enough to engrave paper. I haven't tried that though, don't need any fires in my shop.

My engraver is an Epilog, made in Golden, Colorado. It was about $25,000 new.
 
Larry Ashcraft said:
Trouble with using a laser is, it doesn't actually cut, it just removes the paint. ATF requirements are .03 deep, which is exactly what an engraving diamond cuts.

Laser engraving works beautifully on lowers, as long as you're not trying to meet legal requirements.
Click to expand...

Many firearms are engraved by laser by their makers
 
I bought some 1/16" stamps on Amazon ... It can look "OK" if you take your time. So far I've only used it on a 9mm suppressor I made from aluminum ... I should have practiced a few more times but as mentioned above, there is no resale value for a home-made suppressor :eek:
 
I do my barrels. I don't really care how it looks. I print my info on a pTouch label and then engrave through it with either a Dremel or an electric pencil engraver. It meets the legal requirement, which is all I care about.

IMG_2039_zpswjgpyhd3.jpg
 
MistWolf said:
Many firearms are engraved by laser by their makers
Click to expand...

Those are a different types of lasers that either do their engraving to the required depth, or are engraving parts and markings that do not need to meet the depth requirements.

The biggest issue with laser engraving is that people think the generic trophy shop lasers will do the job. They do not.

We have a LGS here in the Humble (TX) area that uses a guy using one of these lesser types of lasers to do engraving. It is not to the correct depth as it only changes the color. However they keep using the same guy, even after it was pointed out to them. Just waiting for them to be slam dunked like the last owner of that same shop/range was for stupid stuff.





.
 
So, the problem isn't laser engraving, the problem is making sure the engraving meets BATF standards
 
"I do my barrels."

I'm curious - how does that work for an eventual barrel replacement? With the engraving on the lower, you just replace the barrel like any part. With the engraving on the barrel, can you engrave the new barrel w/o a new stamp, or are you adding $200 to barrel replacements?
 
pintler said:
"I do my barrels."

I'm curious - how does that work for an eventual barrel replacement? With the engraving on the lower, you just replace the barrel like any part. With the engraving on the barrel, can you engrave the new barrel w/o a new stamp, or are you adding $200 to barrel replacements?
Click to expand...
There are no restrictions on the number of barrels you can engrave.

Mike
 
pintler said:
"I do my barrels."

I'm curious - how does that work for an eventual barrel replacement? With the engraving on the lower, you just replace the barrel like any part. With the engraving on the barrel, can you engrave the new barrel w/o a new stamp, or are you adding $200 to barrel replacements?
Click to expand...
The receiver is the NFA item because it has the SN, but it's only an SBR when it has a short barrel mounted. You can swap out whatever barreled upper you like as long as the short ones are engraved. One of the things I like about engraving the barrels is that there's nothing to identify the lower as NFA when it isn't in NFA configuration.

I would rather ugly up a barrel that can be replaced instead of the lower that I have to keep forever or pay for another stamp.
 
pintler said:
"I do my barrels."

I'm curious - how does that work for an eventual barrel replacement? With the engraving on the lower, you just replace the barrel like any part. With the engraving on the barrel, can you engrave the new barrel w/o a new stamp, or are you adding $200 to barrel replacements?
Click to expand...
To expand on what Mike said above, the lower is still the "firearm", and only the serial number must be on the lower.

27 CFR 479.102 said:
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks very much for the replies. Some googling still hasn't made things crystal clear.

Let's say I purchase a commercial lower, marked Acme industries, Model A-15, Cal multi, SN A12345.

I do a Form 1 for the lower, and build 2 short barrel uppers. On each barrel I engrave Pintler Trust, Somewhere, USA on each barrel. Is that all you need?

And that lower would be legal with either upper, but not if I swap on an unmarked short upper, say from a commercially built AR pistol?


(as an aside, I wish you could do the analogous thing with suppressors - register the tube, then put in whatever caliber specific internals you want, or replacement parts, like you can replace the SBR barrel!)
 
Caliber must be engraved. Multi doesn't count. When you form 1 a lower -> sbr that has "multi" listed as the caliber, you will need to pick a caliber to put on the form 1.

That doesn't mean that it's the only caliber you can use in that SBR. You can still swap uppers and be legal.

On my SBR, the calibers (.22lr and 300 blk) are on the barrels (they came that way), everything else is on the lower. The lower is marked multi-cal, and it's registered as a .300. I figured I wasn't ever going to sell the lower (why lose the $200 tax?), and it's not like it was a special edition unobtainium piece to begin with.
 
Last edited:
pintler said:
Thanks very much for the replies. Some googling still hasn't made things crystal clear.

Let's say I purchase a commercial lower, marked Acme industries, Model A-15, Cal multi, SN A12345.

I do a Form 1 for the lower, and build 2 short barrel uppers. On each barrel I engrave Pintler Trust, Somewhere, USA on each barrel. Is that all you need?

And that lower would be legal with either upper, but not if I swap on an unmarked short upper, say from a commercially built AR pistol?


(as an aside, I wish you could do the analogous thing with suppressors - register the tube, then put in whatever caliber specific internals you want, or replacement parts, like you can replace the SBR barrel!)
Click to expand...
On the two barrels you have built, all you need to engrave is the "maker" information. The example you gave is adequate. The serial number and caliber, etc. are all on the lower already (unless you finished an 80% lower, which is a whole other issue.) Putting the commercially built upper on the lower could cause a problem if 'someone' wanted to make a case of it. On the other hand, putting a commercially built upper with a barrel >16" in length would be perfectly legal. And I agree with you on the suppressors. Be nice if they would finally pull them from NFA purview. *sigh*
 
pintler said:
Thanks very much for the replies. Some googling still hasn't made things crystal clear.

Let's say I purchase a commercial lower, marked Acme industries, Model A-15, Cal multi, SN A12345.

I do a Form 1 for the lower, and build 2 short barrel uppers. On each barrel I engrave Pintler Trust, Somewhere, USA on each barrel. Is that all you need?

And that lower would be legal with either upper, but not if I swap on an unmarked short upper, say from a commercially built AR pistol?


(as an aside, I wish you could do the analogous thing with suppressors - register the tube, then put in whatever caliber specific internals you want, or replacement parts, like you can replace the SBR barrel!)
Click to expand...
That engraved upper would be legal on any lower on which any other barrel of that length would be legal. I swap my two SBR uppers between my SBR lower and a pistol lower. The engraving ONLY is needed if you are putting it on a registered rifle lower. It's irrelevant otherwise except for the caliber--both my SBR barrels already had the caliber engraved on them. An unengraved upper would either need to be engraved, or the SBR lower needs engraved instead. A SBR needs engraved SOMEWHERE but a pistol does not because a pistol doesn't have to follow NFA rules.

The silencer question is entirely different. ATF holds that any extra silencer part is a silencer in itself and requires a new stamp. Besides, the tube must be engraved with the caliber by law, so you can't have internals of a smaller caliber than what the tube says.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

American_Fusilier
SBR engraving
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
dogtown tom
dogtown tom
Elkins45
  • Locked
SBR engraving: barrel or receiver?
Replies
13
Views
5K
strambo
S
T
  • Locked
Engraving question for SBR.
Replies
13
Views
2K
cottonmouth
C
M
  • Locked
gunsmith / engraver in north fort worth
Replies
16
Views
3K
mrnkc130
M
zignal_zero
  • Locked
stripped SBR?
Replies
6
Views
634
rjrivero
rjrivero
Back
Top