686-3 Trade Help!

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Hey all,

I have a CZ 550 American in 308win posted locally, and was just offered a S&W 686-3 6" as a trade. The gun looks good in the picture, has plastic grips, factory sights. Owner claims it has had "lots of trigger work done".

I will check the timing and all of that prior to completing the transfer of course, but I wanted to check that this was a good deal.

I picked up the CZ 550 for $415 a few years back. Its in nice shape, but has some minor dings here and there in an overall nice, but not glamorous walnut stock. No rust, factory 1" rings plus a set of Warne 30mm rings. I figure its worth about $600, but I know they were discontinued by CZ so maybe they are more desirable now.

A pre-lock S&W is no slouch when it comes to desirability though. Would love to have one.

Looking forward to hearing what you all think!
- TNG
 
Hey all,

I have a CZ 550 American in 308win posted locally, and was just offered a S&W 686-3 6" as a trade. The gun looks good in the picture, has plastic grips, factory sights. Owner claims it has had "lots of trigger work done".

I will check the timing and all of that prior to completing the transfer of course, but I wanted to check that this was a good deal.

I picked up the CZ 550 for $415 a few years back. Its in nice shape, but has some minor dings here and there in an overall nice, but not glamorous walnut stock. No rust, factory 1" rings plus a set of Warne 30mm rings. I figure its worth about $600, but I know they were discontinued by CZ so maybe they are more desirable now.

A pre-lock S&W is no slouch when it comes to desirability though. Would love to have one.

Looking forward to hearing what you all think!
- TNG
I'd sure be curious about what "lots of trigger work" means.

By who?
For what purpose?
When?

If it really is in good shape and passes the revolver check out with flying colors, I think I'd rather have it than the CZ rifle. Just make sure to ask questions and really check it out before you trade it.
 
Cooldill,

You are right - those are the questions to ask. I just got off the phone with the guy and he said that it was owned by an old cop who had the work done. I sent him an email asking if he had more details about who exactly did it.

I'll share what I hear once I hear it!
 
why don't you post the pic of the 686 so we can see what you are getting.

murf
 
I am an unashamed fanboy of cz rifles and handguns, and i would trade if the revolver checks out. But if that 550 was in any of the other caliber options than 308 I would talk you out of it since I really want a 550 for myself...

Sent from my LGLS740 using Tapatalk
 
I'm surprised that anyone would believe a 686 needed lots of trigger work. especially for police duty and not some form of competetive shooting. Just accelerating the wear in with dry firing and a mild abrasive like toothpatse will produce as good as it gets if you are looking for smooth and linear action.

Did they lighten the pull? Change any of the geometry? If so then it really was a detriment, not just a bargaining point. Be very careful here or you may be putting a lot of bucks toward new innards.
 
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rswartsell, those are excellent points. It sounded more like the cop was an enthusiast, and didn't use the pistol for duty. I will be careful to check sear engagement and that everything is safe. Any tips on how to do this (others feel free to chime in)? I've been watching some videos just to be sure I at least have an idea of what I'm looking for. So far, I know I need to bump and wiggle the hammer while its cocked.

adcoch1, I'm right there with you. CZ makes some great stuff - I just don't need this rifle in 308. I'm downsizing a little since I don't know where life is going these next few months. At least wheelguns move easier than rifles!

murf, here is the picture I received: 58301_zpssedehllf.jpg
 
A new trigger and hammer on eBay wont set you back that much if there is a problem with them on this gun.
 
The_Next_Generation

My Model 686 right out of the box had one of the nicest, smoothest DA/SA trigger of any S&W I have ever used. I would be very careful in checking out this one as "lots of trigger work done" would tend to make me a little nervous about what was done and the overall quality of the trigger job. Let us know how things turn out.
 
I'm another who questions "a lot of trigger work". Was it done by a competent revolversmith? Or Joe and Charlie on the picnic table out back?
 
E-bay has the hammer and trigger with other internal parts listed for $50. I didn't check Numrich to see what they sell them for.

You have $415 in the CZ now, if those other parts were needed you' have $465 in the 686.

I believe that would be a very good price for a pre-lock Smith

If you are trying to sell the CZ anyway, I'd go for it.
 
Well if you can do the replacements yourself, Old Shooter has a point, I was thinking of a trip back to S&W.

The 686 is a truly fine revolver and the picture looks like a good one. If you action it, both double and single action and any part doesn't feel like a Smith action, it would be time for the side plate to come off. One tell tale is a light double action pull and then a real hair trigger single action. That would not be a good indication and safe operation may be compromised. Did they mess with the mainspring? That wouldn't be good either, light primer strikes are a possible symptom but I doubt you will get to shoot it before you trade.

Some factory triggers can benefit from such things as aftermarket replacement or tuning and the gun is improved. The 686 just isn't one of them and MOST of the messing with them that goes on ends up under the category of damage. This isn't always the case but most truly competent 'smiths wouldn't do anything past a light polish of contact points and they need a light hand and an intimate knowlege of just how much is improvement and what constitutes damage and compromised safety.

The economics of the situation described by Old Shooter also call into question the motive of your trade partner. The same economics are true for him also. That revolver in good repair could bring north of $800.00 on Gunbroker. YMMV

This is a 4" with original grips but you get the idea where pre-locks are going;

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/575011645

Because of this you may wish to get it even with possible repairs necessary. Just me, but if much internal correction at all is necessary I would use S&W or a 'smith I really trusted because the gun is worth it and so is my peace of mind. Especially if I were to contemplate it for any form of defense use.

P.S. If you did send it back to Smith & Wesson, you should expect them to restore the action to original specs and charge you for it. They would be completely unwilling to leave any alterations in place for liability reasons. Clark Custom Guns near Shreveport, LA would be another option if you could get them to take it. I've had good results dealing with them.

http://clarkcustomguns.com/
 
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have him send you a pic of the other side of the gun. if a lot of trigger work has been done by a competent person, the frame screws on the other side should not be buggered up.

murf
 
^what he said. Another good tell tale to look for whenever contemplating a used revolver!

The side screws should be perfect, not just pretty good but perfect. Gunsmithing screwdrivers in competent hands will leave no marks. It's like leaving a hair across your hotel room door to indicate possible unauthorized entry. Good one murf.
 
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Financially the deal is good for you. As,said, if the revolver checks out and the trigger work wasn't butchered I would do the deal. Only you can answer if it's good for you.
 
A stainless .357 is whole lot more useful than .308 made on antiquated modified Mauser bolt action. The modern state of the art hunting rifle with manual operation has bolt that does not have to raised or lowered but only needs to be moved forward and back (Browning makes one that actually closes by itself after the bolt is withdrawn google Browning 'Maral' and you will see the modern marvel). If the revolver checks out I would make the trade.
 
Hey all,

I have a CZ 550 American in 308win posted locally, and was just offered a S&W 686-3 6" as a trade. The gun looks good in the picture, has plastic grips, factory sights. Owner claims it has had "lots of trigger work done".



I picked up the CZ 550 for $415 a few years back. Its in nice shape, but has some minor dings here and there in an overall nice, but not glamorous walnut stock. No rust, factory 1" rings plus a set of Warne 30mm rings. I figure its worth about $600.

Around here, $600 for a used 686 is not a smokin' deal. It may be a fair deal if the gun is in excellent shape. Remember, when that 686 sold new it probably cost the owner less than $415. As for the "pre-lock" thing, that's a personnel thingy. I can get a brand new 686 for around $700 OTH door from my LGS. The "lock" nor the MIM bother me and the knowledge that no "kitchen table Bubba" Gunsmith has done a trigger job and there has not been 30 years worth of ammo run thru it, and I have a warranty on the gun for as long as I live is worth much more than $100. JMHO, Others may feel differently.

That said, whatever the 686 is worth may be all that your rifle is worth. I have no idea what the CZ is really worth....just what the 686 is worth to me. If that's the case then it's a fair deal and a worthy trade.
 
Alas...the gun wasn't in the shape it should have been in. About 3min into my check the guy said, "I've never seen someone examine a gun in so much detail, what are you checking for?" I told him there were some thing with revolvers worth looking out for, and that I didn't mean to insult him by looking. We got along great and he said he would love to know more for next time he checked out a revolver. I said I was no pro, but I'd do my best.

Things that were good:
- Timing: Did the classic check with a small flashlight. Full lockup on each chamber with the light shining in from the back of the cylinder, looking down the barrel (I let the shop people know what I was doing and why before I did it). Two of the chambers were maybe just a tiny hair off, but it could have been my eyes. The rest seemed perfect.

- "Clicking" (Also timing? Not sure what to call this): I did the trick where you pull the hammer back just enough to spin the cylinder so I could hear it click as I spun the cylinder. I put solid sideways pressure on the trigger from the right side and it still made the clicking sound. Same with pressure on the trigger from the left. An old timer at the range told me about this so I thought it wouldn't hurt to check. He had a 624 he let me practice on and that one - it didn't "sing" (clicked) when leftward pressure was applied to the trigger. When this 686 did it with both sides I felt satisfied.

- Cylinder gap: Pretty self explanatory. I used printer paper as an impromptu gauge. It was on par with the shop's other Smiths to my eye so I figured it was fine.

- Bore: We all know what a good bore looks like :)

- Rear sight: Tight, no wiggle, no drop dings.

Things that weren't so good:
- Recoil guard: Some small gouges/dings. Evidence of it having been cowboy'd...which he admitted to when I politely asked if he had ever flicked the cylinder shut like they do in the movies.

- Crane: When pressure applied, the gap between it and the frame seemed larger than what I saw on the shop's 686-1. I could almost get a credit card in there. More evidence of it being cowboy'd or forced open (more on that later).

- Ejector rod: Slightly bent, but operated smoothly. The knurling had been flattened in two spots as if someone had taken a pair of pliers to it in an attempt to tighten it...which was definitely necessary. It easily loosened, which I didn't know would cause the whole assembly to get stuck shut when closed. Spent 10min slowly tightening it with our fingernails before it would finally clear the forward pin in the underlug that engages the front of the ejector rod (not sure if that's the proper terminology, but hopefully you folks know what I'm talking about). I think the reason it was bent was because the assembly was forced open when it loosened. This would also explain the knurling damage since they probably tried to tighten it after having to smack it open.

- Ejector: Not sure if this is because of the bent rod, or because it wasn't totally tight, but the ejector would just barely hang up on the edge of two of the chambers when returning to position. If done quickly you wouldn't notice, but when I went slowly I could get it to rest on the chamber edge and fail to return to position under spring tension from there. Again, maybe this was just because the rod wasn't totally tight, or because there is a tolerance there that allows this to happen when the operation isn't done fast enough - like riding the slide on a pistol when chambering a round. Correct me if needed :eek:

- Screws: Good, but not perfect. Someone had opened the gun up that wasn't a pro...

- Trigger/hammer: Failed the push-test. Pulled the hammer back, put a plastic pen in front of the hammer, finger nowhere near the trigger, and pushed forward with about 75% of the pinching force between my thumb and index finger. The hammer fell. Tried it a couple times, and it fell every time.


In conclusion: If it had been just the hammer and ejector/rod issue, I would have just barely done the deal. But the bent crane and gouges in the recoil guard muddied the deal too much for me :( I really wanted the gun, and it was hard saying no, but I feel like I made the right decision. The guy was totally cool with it, and thanked me for showing him what I saw. He seemed like an honest guy, and I think was just ignorant and not trying to pull one over on me. I offered him $400 cash given the condition of the gun, but he declined saying he was going to try and get more for it elsewhere. I do my best to reserve judgement of others' morals - lets not worry about his in our discussion :uhoh:

Could I have fixed it up and had a serviceable 686? Maybe, but I just don't feel like adding another project. Time, parts, etc. all add up and at the end of the day I'd rather just take cash for the CZ, even if its less than what the fixed smith would've been worth.
 
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Well done grasshopper!:D

The loosening ejector rod isn't a concern. Generations of Smith users are acquainted with blue Loc-Tite for this reason. But a sprung crane? (Which some of the other signs bring into question) That's a major deal, beyond internal action parts. From what you say, it seems at least minorly sprung, and there is no minorly sprung crane. Like being slightly pregnant. My bet is you wouldn't have been done there and would have unearthed other joys under the side plate. He knew quickly that his goods were not what they should be and he moved along looking for a less aware target.

Someone abused and damn near ruined a fine revolver, and guaranteed, he knew it.
 
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rswartsell, thanks for the validation! I'm still a little bummed, if nothing but for the fact that the world has one less nice pre-lock Smith, and that someone is probably going to get a little screwed.
 
Now that I look at the picture again, it does seem the cylinder isn't quite true, and believe me that's the best he could make it look!
 
The hammer push off is the main thing there that would really make me think twice about giving $400 for a prelock 686. You're looking at $50-$100 in parts (depending what your budding gunsmith buggered up) . Then you need to fit them. If you've never matched a hammer , sear and trigger before. It's a bit daunting and allot of hit or miss. I still remember my first.
.
 
The_Next_Generation

Good job with your revolver check-out. Way too many possible issues and red flags here to make this a decent trade. Well back to looking for your Model 686; you'll find the "right" one when the time comes.
 
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