1KPerDay
Member
Is the M13 just a 19 without adjustable sights? I thought 13s were the aluminum cylinder Air Force things. What am I thinking of? Model 12??
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Yes, the S&W Model 13 is the fixed sight version of the Model 19.
The S&W Model 12 is the light weight version that the Air Force ordered.
As with many things in the gun world, the confusion comes in when you look at the military designation. The Air Force designated the light weight pistol the "Revolver, Lightweight, Caliber .38 Special, M13". These were first procured in the early 1950s before S&W went to the Model Number nomenclature.
Later, when S&W converted to the Model Number series, the Air Force M13 became the S&W Model 12 in the civilian world.
The S&W Model 12 is the light weight version that the Air Force ordered.
As with many things in the gun world, the confusion comes in when you look at the military designation. The Air Force designated the light weight pistol the "Revolver, Lightweight, Caliber .38 Special, M13". These were first procured in the early 1950s before S&W went to the Model Number nomenclature.
Later, when S&W converted to the Model Number series, the Air Force M13 became the S&W Model 12 in the civilian world.
1KPerDay
Member
Ah, thanks! That must be the source of my confusion.
Model 13 was my first duty gun
When I started with the I&NS in 1991, they were issuing S&W model 13's. We used the 110 grain jhp in it without problems. These were supposed to be the FBI rejects that the bureau did not want after ordering thousands of them. Instead they went with the 10m.m. and had a complete fiasco.
Department of Justice, just gave those S&W model 13's to all their componets, like I&NS and the U.S. Marshal Service.
With the 110 grain ammo, they worked well, were good carry guns as they weighed about 2 pounds loaded (compare that with the RUGER GP-100 they bought next) and could be carried concealed.
We had some incidents when officers qualified with 125 grain jhp and the forcing cone split. After that, after that, only RUGER'S and S&W L frames got the 125 grain jhp. When I last qualified with my S&W 681 with the 125 grain ammo, they dumped 6 boxes on me just to clear out the supply pf 125 grain ammo.
If you want to carry the 110 grain ammo, you can buy the WINCHESTER White box load as it is the mildest load of this ammo and by far the cheapest. It will also work fine as a self defense load. About equal to a 9m.m. +P 115 grain round.
Jim
When I started with the I&NS in 1991, they were issuing S&W model 13's. We used the 110 grain jhp in it without problems. These were supposed to be the FBI rejects that the bureau did not want after ordering thousands of them. Instead they went with the 10m.m. and had a complete fiasco.
Department of Justice, just gave those S&W model 13's to all their componets, like I&NS and the U.S. Marshal Service.
With the 110 grain ammo, they worked well, were good carry guns as they weighed about 2 pounds loaded (compare that with the RUGER GP-100 they bought next) and could be carried concealed.
We had some incidents when officers qualified with 125 grain jhp and the forcing cone split. After that, after that, only RUGER'S and S&W L frames got the 125 grain jhp. When I last qualified with my S&W 681 with the 125 grain ammo, they dumped 6 boxes on me just to clear out the supply pf 125 grain ammo.
If you want to carry the 110 grain ammo, you can buy the WINCHESTER White box load as it is the mildest load of this ammo and by far the cheapest. It will also work fine as a self defense load. About equal to a 9m.m. +P 115 grain round.
Jim
Confederate
Member
There's also the problem of frame stretch. I knew a guy years ago who wore out a Model 19 by firing hot loads thru it. After it went out of time once or twice, he had to retire the gun. His next gun was a stainless Ruger Security-Six. The forcing cone didn't look any more robust than a Ruger's, but the Ruger's forcing cones tend to hold up, possibly because of the way they're heat treated.
But the Ruger's great strength is in its solid frame design. Some Security-Six revolvers have digested hundreds of thousands of hot magnum rounds with no damage.
That said, I rue the day I sold my S&W 13 back in the 80s because it's classy. I wouldn't trade my Security-Six for anything, but I'd certainly get a 13 in a heartbeat if I could find one in mint condition.
But the Ruger's great strength is in its solid frame design. Some Security-Six revolvers have digested hundreds of thousands of hot magnum rounds with no damage.
That said, I rue the day I sold my S&W 13 back in the 80s because it's classy. I wouldn't trade my Security-Six for anything, but I'd certainly get a 13 in a heartbeat if I could find one in mint condition.
Your model 13 is a K frame .357 mag and as such has the thinned forcing cone, see the article illustrations in link below. K frame .357 mag pistols have had issues with cracks in the forcing cone thinned portion due to shooting full power 125gr JHP's (1,450 fps). Some have cracked after a couple hundred rounds, others after more than 1,000 and others haven't had any problems. Here is a decent article on the issue http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm
I believe the conservative approach would be not to shoot many of the 125gr full power loads. Carry them for defense if desired since who cares if the gun is damaged after using it in a defense situation as long as you are still alive. The 125gr JHP full power .357 mag is still one of the most effective rounds ever loaded for self defense.
I own 2 K frame .357 magnums, a model 19 and a model 66. I've shot some 125gr full power hand loads through them and neither have a cracked forcing cone. I still will carry 125's in them but have gone to Remington Golden Sabers that is factory loaded at mid range of 1,220 fps. Mostly I shoot 158gr lead bullets, either .38 spl or .357 mag. I will also shoot 158gr jacketed hand loads running at 1,240 fps (14.0 grs 2400).
I believe the conservative approach would be not to shoot many of the 125gr full power loads. Carry them for defense if desired since who cares if the gun is damaged after using it in a defense situation as long as you are still alive. The 125gr JHP full power .357 mag is still one of the most effective rounds ever loaded for self defense.
I own 2 K frame .357 magnums, a model 19 and a model 66. I've shot some 125gr full power hand loads through them and neither have a cracked forcing cone. I still will carry 125's in them but have gone to Remington Golden Sabers that is factory loaded at mid range of 1,220 fps. Mostly I shoot 158gr lead bullets, either .38 spl or .357 mag. I will also shoot 158gr jacketed hand loads running at 1,240 fps (14.0 grs 2400).
I absolutely LOVE the perfectly balanced 3" Model 13/65 (blued/stainless) models! For pure shooting results, nothing beats 'em!
I'd buy every one of those hard-to-find little K frames that I could get (at a decent price of course).
Now if you want to shoot, shoot, shoot thousands of dollars of hard kicking ammo through it? Get a Ruger or an "L" frame Smith. Better, wear out one of the new butt-ugly Model L versions with the lock in it, and save your vintage K frames for sheer shooting joy and self defence.
I've gone the full gambit through the years, and only my '82 vintage 3" Model 65 still is "safe" in my safe! Lord knows how many rounds I've put through this wonderful revolver, and it is still a "keeper!"
I'd buy every one of those hard-to-find little K frames that I could get (at a decent price of course).
Now if you want to shoot, shoot, shoot thousands of dollars of hard kicking ammo through it? Get a Ruger or an "L" frame Smith. Better, wear out one of the new butt-ugly Model L versions with the lock in it, and save your vintage K frames for sheer shooting joy and self defence.
I've gone the full gambit through the years, and only my '82 vintage 3" Model 65 still is "safe" in my safe! Lord knows how many rounds I've put through this wonderful revolver, and it is still a "keeper!"
Oops, I just realized this was a 4" version. Vs. a 3" this version has less felt recoil and faster barrel velocities . . . meaning it is STILL a great firearm, and a tad more effective in its put down ratio. I love the vintageK-frames!!!
Hangingrock
Member
The investment casting process employed by Ruger is the reason for the bulkiness of the frame. The Ruger of then to the Ruger of today is the capital investment of machinery that is more apparent now with CNC. The Ruger of then utilized the less expensive capital invest in casting thus the entity Pine Tree Castings.
I want to thank all you folks for the replies - have learned a lot. That Gunblast article linked to by Steve C was really something else. I'll definitely go with 158 grain 38 spl. +P for practice if I don't try that low recoil 357. Helping the revolver last forever is something I would like to try to do. But I may keep a more potent round in it for self defense, like the 125 grain .357. I appreciate all the help!
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