S&W 6906 or Stoeger Cougar 8000

Both? Price is about right on the Cougar and maybe a bit high on the Smith (according to Gun Broker).

I am a big fan of the Cougar design as I use a lot of the Beretta PX4 family and that rotating barrel makes it a really comfortable shooter.

Had the full size Cougar in the past and really liked it.

If only one, I would probably go Cougar as it is based on the original Beretta design. I have no experience with the Smith, but it is cheap as dirt on GB.

The 6906. No question.

Third generation Smiths are fantastic pistols.

The Stoeger is in current production(as far as I know), the S&W has been out of production for a while, and they aren't getting any cheaper. So I'd say 6906 while you can get it for a good price, down the road if you don't fancy it, you'll have no issues selling it.

S&W. American and better resale value if you get tired of it, + factory support.

Cougars can be had new for $299.

A nice condition 6906 would be my choice right now.

6906...Especially if doesn't have the "finger hook" on the front of the trigger guard. Standard 6906 mags are 12rd, but 15rd mags from S&W 59, 5906, 915, etc. work.

One of these pistols proved itself by serving served Law Enforcement and Security personnel in the US for many years, proving once and for all that a compact semi-automatic pistol could be reliable, accurate, and durable enough for duty purposes. It was the Glock 19 before there was ever a Glock 19, if you will.

The other one is a Turkish copy of a failed,rotating barrel Italian design.

Easy choice, if you ask me.

Around here, a nice 6906 fetches $550-$600. Beat-to-hell Police trade-ins fetch a good bit less than that.

boricua9mm said:

One of these pistols proved itself by serving served Law Enforcement and Security personnel in the US for many years, proving once and for all that a compact semi-automatic pistol could be reliable, accurate, and durable enough for duty purposes. It was the Glock 19 before there was ever a Glock 19, if you will.

The other one is a Turkish copy of a failed,rotating barrel Italian design.

Easy choice, if you ask me.

Around here, a nice 6906 fetches $550-$600. Beat-to-hell Police trade-ins fetch a good bit less than that.

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Beretta owns Stoeger and manufactures the Cougar on their old tooling. So honestly it's pretty much the same gun under a different name. By producing in Turkey they can cut labor costs and still produce their gun with good quality materials. There are a ton of great guns coming from Turkey and the Stoeger has a positive reputation.

Beretta owns Stoeger and manufactures the Cougar on their old tooling. So honestly it's pretty much the same gun under a different name. By producing in Turkey they can cut labor costs and still produce their gun with good quality materials. There are a ton of great guns coming from Turkey and the Stoeger has a positive reputation.

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Who owns them is of no consequence. Looking back over the past 15 years, Turkey has had an abysmal reputation in the US firearms market, where QA and QC is continuously suspect. This holds true for Turkish shotguns, pistols, and now subgun clones. Even those produced on so-called "licensed tooling" have been shown to not be made to the same material specs as the original guns for which the license has been issued. Gross negligence in QA/QC are common with Turkish firearms, with return rates being higher than normal when compared to stateside manufacturing.

Turkish firearms have a reputation, and it's for making guns that are not up to par. Nor the least of which are Stoeger O/U guns whose ribs separate from the barrels, MP5 clones whose bolt heads are made from castings with visible voids (or whole guns made from used, demilled parts kits), or Cougars that flat out don't cycle.

If Beretta could have succeeded in selling the Cougar, they'd still me making it and selling it for $500 a pop. They didn't have a winner, so instead they kicked it to the catfish market, where it remains after close to a decade now.

The S&W is the way I'd go. It's a beautiful gun and the second and third generation Smiths were some of the best autos ever made. The first generation was one of the worst, but they finally got it right.

BTW, does your friend's 6906 have a black trigger or silver. (Silver's better.)

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boricua9mm said:

Who owns them is of no consequence. Looking back over the past 15 years, Turkey has had an abysmal reputation in the US firearms market, where QA and QC is continuously suspect. This holds true for Turkish shotguns, pistols, and now subgun clones. Even those produced on so-called "licensed tooling" have been shown to not be made to the same material specs as the original guns for which the license has been issued. Gross negligence in QA/QC are common with Turkish firearms, with return rates being higher than normal when compared to stateside manufacturing.

Turkish firearms have a reputation, and it's for making guns that are not up to par. Nor the least of which are Stoeger O/U guns whose ribs separate from the barrels, MP5 clones whose bolt heads are made from castings with visible voids (or whole guns made from used, demilled parts kits), or Cougars that flat out don't cycle.

If Beretta could have succeeded in selling the Cougar, they'd still me making it and selling it for $500 a pop. They didn't have a winner, so instead they kicked it to the catfish market, where it remains after close to a decade now.

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The public seems to disagree with you. Academy Sports uses an independent system that lets users rate their guns.

The Stoeger Cougar 9mm has 43 reviews and a five star rating. The .40 S&W version has 25 reviews and a five star rating. The Remington R51 has a dismal 2 star rating so the system isn't sugar coated by the store.

Gun mags have reviewed the Cougar and various other Turkish guns very positively too. I have even shot one (the Cougar) and it worked great.

Then there are the TP9's of all flavors being imported and getting almost unanimously positive reviews. Same with the ones being imported by Tristar, even the guys on the CZ forum love them and they are not an easy crowd to please.

So basically, while Turkish guns may have had more suspect quality at one time, they're pretty positively viewed right now by a large number of real shooters and reviewers. I'm not seeing a ton of major issues with them anywhere. Certainly not considerably higher than normal for US manufacturers. Take a look at Ruger's recall list if you want a shocker.

Redcoat3340 said:

Black trigger, which I assume mean MIM.

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No, actually I think it's plastic. The MiM parts would be fine with me if they were hard chromed (like the silver). Regardless of what it is, it should work just fine. I just like the quality of the previous guns. You might want to hold out for one if it's important to you.

I've owned the Stoeger and the original Beretta version. Both were great shooting guns.
The rotating bolt is kind of neat but I find the recoil reduction claims to be suspect.
The only difference I could find was the trigger on the Stoeger looked a little rough and unfinished.
The finish on both is some sort of painted on crap that looks like it belongs on a kids air rifle.
I think the Cougar would have done better if it had traditional blueing.
It does hold 15rds so if you like "thick girls" with high fun capacity you might like the Cougar.

I would take the 6906, but the Cougar is an ok gun, that you can get for $299 new anyway. I have no problem with Turkish made guns, I have 3 already, and plan on another one soon.

Canik TP9v2
Sar K2 45.
Sar ST10

All three have been flawless.

Soon:

TriStar T120 in chrome.

Redcoat3340

I think between the two I would also go with the S&W Model 6906. Had a couple of them years ago and while I just didn't do well with the DA/SA trigger set-up I never had a problem with any of the S&W autos that I owned. Good gun at a decent price.

Black trigger and hammer on 6906.
I'm a MIM hater, through and through.
However, my 5946 has MIM hammer/trigger and I DARE you to try to get it away from me.
Not happening.
Smith did MIM right on the 3rd gen guns.

My 6906 is an early model, with the square trigger guard.
I like it better than the round trigger guard 3rd gens.
2 of my 3rd gens have STG, the other 2 have the RTG.
Neither style of trigger guard makes any difference in performance.
I just like the look of the square trigger guard (STG) better than the round.

3rd gen Smiths are reliable to a fault. They will even cycle empty brass from the magazine. Given how many autos used to be unreliable with HPs (at best) of ball ammo (at worst), this is no small feat.

i'd pick any 3rd gen Smith over any Cougar (Beretta or Turkish).
The 3rd gens are just that good.

I carried a Model 6906 as a peace officer from when our agency switched from revolvers to autos in 1990 to when I retired eight years later. I never experienced one malfunction during our bi-annual, re-qualification courses of fire over that time period, using thousands of cheap, department reloads. Mine has the "hooked" trigger guard, which I think detracts from the "aesthetics" of the pistol but not enough for me to ever part with it.

The Model 6906 continues to be part of my carry-concealed, pistol rotation duties in my "civilian" life. It's one of the few pistols I trust with my, and my loved ones, lives.

3rd gen. S&W.

No experience with the Couger but I have a round guard 6906 that runs very well. First shot double action is very smooth, follow up has some take up but breaks clean. Have not shot it in a while but in the past I put a ton of rounds through it with no probs what so ever.

I can't say enough nice things about the 69xx pistols. I have two, one with the standard slide and one with a long (4") slide from a 5903. They are incredible.

I can't speak to the Smith and Wesson pistol.

I do own a Stoeger Cougar full-size in .45 ACP (Cougar 8045F) as well as two Beretta Cougars, both minis, one in 9mm Luger (mini-Cougar 8000D) and the other in .40 S&W (mini-Cougar 8040F).

I have disassembled all of those in detail and polished the internals. The build quality of the Stoeger appears to be every bit as good as that of the Berettas and the Stoeger has functioned perfectly.

I would not call the rotating barrel lock-up of Beretta a "failed design". Beretta has used what is essentially the same mechanism for the PX4 Storm, and many who own that pistol are very happy with it. I have had no issues with the design and all of my Cougars seem to tame recoil extremely well.

It is true that the Beretta Cougar did not sell very well. It had the misfortune of being introduced during the Clinton high-cap magazine ban. I think a good part of the reason that Beretta sent the tooling to Turkey was that they realized the future was in a polymer-frame pistol and were developing the PX4 storm.

It is true that Academy Sports was selling new Stoeger Cougar 8000Fs NIB for $399 a while back. I haven't seen any at that price locally for a good while, however. They certainly did not have G10 grips.

I would say that a relative disadvantage of the Stoeger is that magazines can be a bit difficult to find and that capacity is a bit on the low side for a pistol of that size.

Count me in with the 6906 crowd. 325.00 s a real good price for a decent 6906. As mentioned earlier, a brand new Cougar can be had for 300.00 at Academy. I've owned both guns and for me the 6906 simply handled and shot better. Never could get used to the trigger on the Cougar--sort of a 2 stage deal in DA mode.

Redcoat, I have a new Cougar & only have about 50 rounds thru it so far. Seems like a solid gun. And you'll be able to buy them for the next 10 years at good prices I predict (assuming no radical changes to our 2A rights)

But I'm with you on the S&W 3rd gen's. I've had a 6904, two 669's (late 2nd gen - still have one), two 5946's (still have one), a CS9 that I was stupid to sell, and just bought a 6906 at a price I couldn't pass up. I just like them! And I'm not so sure that you'll be able to buy them at good prices in ten more years.