Which gun to buy? Special EURO guy requests.

Yeah, what country, OP? It will really affect how we can give advice. I assume not Italy (or France???), as they don't really let you buy 9mm Parabellum because "it's for the military," and things are usually in 9mm IMI instead. And certainly not in the UK. There was a recent thread about buying a gun in Latvia which I found interesting. It might not apply to you but still interesting.

My vote is CZ 75 but whatever feels right to you after holding it.

Also, I don't get big into screaming USA!USA!USA! but our beer is the best, and if you think it's all Budweiser then you don't really drink beer. In other countries, I agree with Mizar but might give Belgium a slight edge over UK. Those monks make some tasty stuff. Czech and Germany are fine but it's all lager, lager, and lager (except Dusseldorf and Cologne).

Stormbilly said:

The CZ SP-01 is a great gun, and I'm sure you'd be happy with it. You just need to decide if you want it with a decocker or a safety. I'd personally prefer the safety model. But that's personal preference.

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I know some people are down on polymer, but the OP is looking at Glock so it's at least a possibility... so if available there is always the CZ P-07, or its predecessor the P-07 Duty. It has a decocker, but comes with a safety that's easy to swap out if you prefer that.

Today am carrying a Sig P239 in 9mm with a single stack 10-shot magazine which allows for an 11 shot carry. And the ankle BUG is a Walther PPK (32ACP). The Sig P239 is the most accurate 9mm handgun in my experience, (slightly more accurate than the Browning Hi-Power) and is also a Secret Service approved carry.

Best to you.

I am in agreement with the idea of caliber interchangeability. I would not start off with a 9mm though, I would start with a 45acp or 10mm glock. The reason I say this is that they are super reliable and easy to keep running.

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The Glock was conceived, designed, and built to be a 9mm. If there is a "super reliable, easy to keep running" Glock, it is in 9mm.

From the large frame you can come down to almost any caliber in the glock lineup with a barrel, magazine, and recoil spring.

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Nope.

I guess I should have simply said "upper" and magazine. The frame remains the frame,

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Nope. You're sharing bad information.

i would also like a gun that looks good, shoots very good, uses 9mm rounds, is quite easy to reassamble, is very reliable.

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If it fits your hand, you'll find nothing that meets these criteria and is easier to clean, maintain, and repair than a Glock. I'd get a 19 if I could only own one.

Between the two, I would prefer the Glock. I like the rethinking it represents of how pistols should work. It has been a revolution: Now everyone and his brother are building striker fired pistols with polymer frames.

There are good reasons for preferring the CZ, though. If you prefer the traditional feel of a steel frame or the more conventional DA/SA lockwork, you'll like it better, and it is certainly the more handsome of the two.

It's a win-win choice. The recommendation of a convertible Ruger Blackhawk is interesting--it would, I think, draw attention when used at European target ranges. Yippie ki yay.

...I would prefer the Glock. I like the rethinking it represents of how pistols should work. It has been a revolution...

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Yup - a revolution with firing mechanism from 1907 and frame from 1970... A friend of mine once said, that every gun made after 1916 is basically an imitation of an earlier design. As time goes by again and again I convince myself that he was right.

Ruger Blackhawk...it would, I think, draw attention when used at European target ranges...

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I wouldn't hold my breath for that. But it's a fine revolver though and a very good recommendation!

I'm new to handguns as well, and I just purchased a Glock 19 Gen 4 after doing a lot of research and testing. Two things I really appreciate about the Glock: reliability and simplicity. It's only had a few jams (and that's because I fed it some cheap ammo), otherwise perfect. And I can literally field strip it - and put it back together - with my eyes closed.

OP, you've come to the right place - the people here are very knowledgeable and supportive. I'll mirror what they've said - try out as many guns as you can. You'll find some that feel very natural. Remember that if you're not comfortable with it, you probably won't use it very much.

Let us know what you choose - and post some pictures as well!

P.S. - I also purchased a Walther PPK/S in .22LR. Very happy with that one as well - but I absolutely need to feed it higher quality ammo....


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Mizar said:

Yup - a revolution with firing mechanism from 1907 and frame from 1970... A friend of mine once said, that every gun made after 1916 is basically an imitation of an earlier design. As time goes by again and again I convince myself that he was right.

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You're thinking like an engineer. I am thinking like a capitalist imperialist running dog of anti-Soviet expansionist aggressionism. That was my cold war title.

If a design did not sell, it did not work in that sense. A combination of ideas, years later, that clicked? The Glock is the first gun to tempt this Yankee away from his Smith and Wesson. Holds a whole box of ammo, no damned safeties. Seems it works pretty well.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that. But it's a fine revolver though and a very good recommendation!

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Light off some big .357 loads as the sun goes down and Makarov users will certainly ask what you just did.

Since the OP isn't going to use his gun for protection or hunting, a good accurate .22 lr will provide the most fun for the money and since this will be the OP's first sporting arm, a .22 lr is the logical and practical choice for learning to shoot.
There are plenty of excellent .22lr pistols made in Europe.
If it's a Parabellum you want, check out a steel frame 1911 in 9mm.

Sig P320 in whatever size you want.

Mizar said:

Yup - a revolution with firing mechanism from 1907 and frame from 1970... A friend of mine once said, that every gun made after 1916 is basically an imitation of an earlier design. As time goes by again and again I convince myself that he was right.

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Show me an underbarrel revolver produced before the Chiappa Rhino....the LeMat doesn't count, It has a separate barrel in addition to the top barrel.


OP still hasn't disclosed his country or it's gun laws. It's almost a drive-by.

Since the pistol will only be used at the range... CZ75b and later add the CZ Kadet .22lr conversion. I just bought my second 75b which I will leave stock, the first one has target sights and a trigger job, a shooters dream. I became a CZ owner by a happy accident, I've become a fan because of the quality.

...Show me an underbarrel revolver produced before the Chiappa Rhino...

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It's off topic, but I could not pass that one - there you go, something else you would like?

Get a Glock G19 or 17 and at least six spare magazines. If you don't like the trigger pull, get a 3.5 lb target trigger added and start practicing. Practice ammo is cheap and available, and the high performance ammo is effective for defense.

I'm a 1911 .45 acp man but wouldn't hesitate to sue a Glock if needed.

For home defense, just use a shotgun with buckshot. Far more effective than any handgun.

Jim

I've handled and owned and shot a lot of handguns, and if I was taking a gun to war, I'd take a glock. For something fun to shoot at the range, and from your 2 choices, it would be the cz over the glock every time.

Cz's fit my hand (and most hands) better, the metal frame soaks up recoil better, and cz triggers are just better. especially the single action triggers. glocks can be made to work, and there are excellent shooters who work wonders with them, but at the end of the day, they are comparatively heavy and creepy. No striker trigger is as good as a single action trigger.

I don't know how much guns cost in the OP's country, so I'll try and stay under $1100 americam. In ascending order of price:
witness elite match. single action only, adjustable sights, nice trigger, slide upper in interchangable with other calibers.
cz75sa all the pluses of the elite match, but in a slightly smaller frame size and worse sights
witness elite limited - everything nice about the match, but nicer.
cz tac sport is even nicer, but breaks the budget.

some other options: the grandpower k100 is really nice, and the croatian hs2000 became the springfield xd, which is a rival to the glock. the sig 320 feels great in the hand, but I always feel like sigs sit too high in the hand. If you can find a FN hi-power knocking around, those can be really nice as well, but out of the box they need some tweaks.

It's off topic, but I could not pass that one - there you go, something else you would like?

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Ok, I guess there is nothing new under the sun.....

.......and still no country or laws from Gargamel.

entropy said:

Show me an underbarrel revolver produced before the Chiappa Rhino....the LeMat doesn't count, It has a separate barrel in addition to the top barrel.


OP still hasn't disclosed his country or it's gun laws. It's almost a drive-by.

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Nosorog AEK


The famous Mateba.

RX-79G said:

Nosorog AEK


The famous Mateba.

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OK, OK, I get it! Mizar beat you to it, and with a much older example.

Still nothing from the OP.

How big of a guy are you? What size your are your hands? How much shooting do you have behind you?

Fully loaded CZ 75 SP01 may be quite a heavy pistol for some, especially if you are starting with shooting and are not used to have weight in your stretched arms.

I do shoot quite a bit and I am able to shoot SP01 well without tiring my arms, but I just don't want to. Which is why I went with this Stainless (which also looks gorgeous):



Some of my friends that shoot little still think that even this one is a bit on the heavier side and much more prefer to shoot my CZ 75 Compact D (aluminum frame).

And then there is the option to get full size with lower weight: CZ P09. If your country's laws allow you (where do you come from?) to use PDW conversion, then you suddenly have one and a half gun on a single gun permit. Which can be useful in countries with limits on the guns bought.

I'd say go with the CZ.
or anything other than a glock

Snejdarek, I don't think that the OP will have a problem with that kit - it's basically a shell, a simple stock without "major firearm components" - i.e. barrel, receiver, breach and frame. But I question it's usefulness, not to mention that it is ugly as hell and pricey. Wouldn't it be better if one buys more ammo to practice instead of this "tactical"... Thing?

Best,
Boris

P.S. About the weight and inexperienced shooters - at the beginning they all find guns awkward to handle, heavy and with unpleasant recoil. They just have to get used to it.

You may want to look at one of the Tanfoglios. At least with the large frame, you can get new/different slide/barrel/uppers in various calibers all while using the same frame. Since the frame is the part with the serial number, it's my understanding that in many European nations you don't need a new permit/license/whatever to just get a new slide/barrel/upper.

Since Tanfoglio uppers can be had in 9mm, .38 super, .40, 10mm, and .45 ACP, you can have quite a bit of fun with just one frame.

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I'll second this recommendation. There is also a .22 Long Rifle kit for them, as well as 9x21. Lots of aftermarket upgrades and accessories, too. They're kinda the AR of the pistol world.

I have a Glock 34 which I use for shooting IDPA. The Glock is a good gun
but the CZ-75 is a much better gun. It is more accurate and friendly to
hand load and to fire. If I had it to do over I would buy the CZ.

Zeke

Mizar, in some countries, using this stock amounts to having SBR an SBRs are verboten.

In other countries it is difficult to get permit for multiple firearms, this allows you to train SBR style shooting. Clearly, it is still the same gun, but the SBR body allows you to fire faster and more accurately.

As regards weight and recoil, there are guns that handle better than others, especially for some people. SP01 is a nice gun recoilwise but I would not recommend a tiny person to start with it as a first gun.

Snejdarek said:

SP01 is a nice gun recoilwise but I would not recommend a tiny person to start with it as a first gun.

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I would think that the person who finds a gun like the SP01 "heavy" to hold would be particularly recoil sensitive! And, therefore, to need all the weight they can get.

Of the two choices, CZ75 Sp01 Shadow. I own the Glock 17 and I am very proficient with it, more than 20,000 rounds down range over the years. My range buddy has the Shadow. It is simply a better gun for the range. Better sights, trigger, grip, weight.

That said, find a range or club where you can hire or borrow both and try them out. If possible, buy both.