Not happy with ammo purchase

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The problem with regulatory agencies is that they go around looking for things to regulate.

However, if a manufacturer is marketing an unsafe product, be it exploding batteries in a cell phone or unsafe ammunition, the products should be removed from the market place. The requirement to have a license should carry a responsibility to manufacture safe products, not just get the squares checked for having no previous criminal activity.

What would be the correct place to take this up? SAAMI? At SAAMI, the standards are voluntary. I would hate for anyone have to take an ammo manufacturer to court because their product blew a person's finger off. Or worse.

And then, if someone decides to take indirect action by naming names in a forum such as this, the so-call manufacturer can sue the OP, and anyone else in sight...

What is a shooter to do?

This sort of reminds me of the time that I got 100 unfired 35 Whelen cases right after the cartridge was standardized that had incorrect head space (shoulder was a bit too far back). The manufacturer replaced them, but it took a letter and a couple of phone calls.

Hopefully, this problem will be resolved the same way.
 
Factory reloaded .380 Auto caused a 'squib'/bullet stuck in my Sig 232's chamber. The company staffer told me that he had never heard of this before.

This company sells their reloads in nice shiny boxes, and they are often seen at gun shows around Memphis.
They are in west TN and I never again bought any of that brand.
 
Not a fan of remanufactured loads either, but I'll make an exception for Black Hills---extremely accurate stuff! I just gave away the last of my empty brass---Black Hills was remanufacturing Lake City at the time---as I no longer have a .223. The fellow who got it was very grateful.
 
Using ammo that you didn't personally reload is risky. You have no way of knowing who loaded the ammo or how careful they were and your fingers and eyes are in their hands.
Totally agree with Shaq. I never purchase reloaded ammo for this very reason.
 
The only reloads/remans I've ever bought were in odd, tough-to-find calibers, and all I really wanted to do was "manufacture" some good brass.
 
As a point of interest, the Ruger manual says that if you use reloads that the warranty is voided...
Every gun manufacturer has the same warning. They have to release themselves from liability because they have no control over someone else's reloads.

The fact is, if a gun needs warranty repair & the problem was not due to reloaded ammunition, the factory will still honor the warranty - that has been my experience. It's usually easy to determine because a problem with reloads frequently results in a damaged gun.
 
That sucks sir. I hope you learned a lesson. I won't use cheap ar ammo. I got two stuck in three weeks las year. I am now sitting on 540 rounds of cheap factory ammo that nobody will buy from me:uhoh:

I also had a box of hi dollar defense 380 ammo that got stuck due to folded over casings. A kind RO got it out. I think I threw it out, or it is around here somewhere.
 
So I heard back from the company on Friday. The owner is sending some free ammo to cover the defects and my sorting time. When I sent the original email I didn't request compensation I left it as "dissatisfied customer" to see how he would respond.

The jist of the email was that he was very sorry and was glad I included pictures so he could figure out where QC went wrong. Anyway I am reasonably satisfied with the out come.

I ended up with 41 bad rounds out of 1000. 3 with cracks in the neck and 38 with folded over brass like in the pictures posted. I had a bunch with burrs that I removed and consider usable. I am going to disassemble the defective rounds later today or tomorrow to weigh the powder and check for consistency. If they weight out pretty close to one another I will consider the ammo as usable.

For those still reading the company is Pro-Reload. I don't think I will purchase from them again. I don't think I will purchase reman ammo again.

Pete
 
Sounds like a satisfactory response from the seller to this point.

But .. your name, DIY-Pete certainly begs the question: why are you not reloading your ammo yourself?
 
Sounds like a satisfactory response from the seller to this point.

But .. your name, DIY-Pete certainly begs the question: why are you not reloading your ammo yourself?

I do reload for my 9mm but this is my first Rifle in a lot of years so I am still not sure how much I am going to shoot. I will save cases from the new 556 ammo I have and then I'll have it if I do decide to reload.

I have only gone through a couple hundred rounds of 556 this summer but in the last year or so I've put about 5000 through my two 9mm pistols.
 
I don't think I will purchase from them again. I don't think I will purchase reman ammo again.
I can understand how you feel and I certainly agree with others that the best and safest reloads are those you do for yourself.

On the other hand, taking one bad experience, with one manufacturer and using that to form a negative opinion of all remanufactured ammo isn't really fair either.

I have a non handloading friend that shoots a lot of Black Hills remanufactured 77 grain .223.
He's had zero problems with reliability and he gets accuracy about as good as my handloads.

As in any business, some companies will do better than others.
 
41 bad rounds out of 1000!! Your lucky you didn't lose one finger out of 10 or worse!:banghead: Why risk your firearm and your well being over saving a couple bucks?:confused:
 
Please don't. First, the ATF isn't the Better Business Bureau or Chamber of Commerce. It isn't a consumer advocacy agency.

Second, when people involve the ATF it invariably leads to unintended consequences that bite all of us in the behind.
__________________
I second that....never know when they might start shooting women children and dogs...:fire:
 
I find the people posting "I never buy reloaded ammo" to be a bit over the top. There are several companies like Black Hills and Ultramax that make millions of rounds of reloads every year and you hear about the same amount of complaints as brand new factory stuff.

Component wise, there is nothing different between reloaded and once loaded ammo except that the brass has been fired more than once. Most quality remanufacturers only use once fired brass. You get a new bullet, primer, and powder.

The reality is that now you know that you have good brass that worked once, and if properly resized and meets all the dimension requirements, will work again.

The issue comes in with companies that clean the brass, throw it in a case feeder, start pumping out rounds, and then sell it. Many of these little companies have very low quality control standards, and the price of the ammo reflects that. People are gullible enough to buy this ammo without understanding what they are really getting.
 
Ditto what Marshall Dodge said.
BTW, I believe that Black Hills at one time would take your brass and reload it (of course culling any bad brass). Not sure if they still do that as this was at the height of the 2008 scare if I recall right. Have used Ultramax in the past but my experience was that the powder was pretty dirty and left a lot of residue upon firing.
 
QUOTE:
As a point of interest, the Ruger manual says that if you use reloads that the warranty is voided...

What warranty? I own many Ruger firearms and, although their customer service is one of the best in the business, none of them came with a warranty. The typical admonition, along with their reasoning for same, found in all of my Ruger manuals is this: "...Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either 'limited' or 'full'..."
Just to add, though my Ruger "inventory" dates back to 1975, none coming with a written warranty, I have heard (but have never seen) that some very early Ruger firearms did come with written warranties.
 
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So last night I finally got around to taking a few rounds apart and weighing out the powder charges. I pulled 15 rounds and they were very consistent. The bottom of the scale was 24.4 grains with the top being 24.5 grains. I'm still not 100% happy with the purchase but I don't believe the ammo will hurt my gun so I am going to shoot it out and start the reloading process for this caliber.

Pete
 
I do all of my .223/ 5.56 ammo on a single stage press, in the past twelve months i have loaded approximately 8,000 rounds. Occasionally i find a primer upside down but 99.9 % of my reloads function as expected, i trim my brass in a trim die with a file to keep length consistant and often check my powder measure with an electronic scale.
I shoot a heck of a lot of .223 and reloading is a requirement. Freedom munitions makes new and remanufactured ammo that is top quality stuff.
 
Most quality remanufacturers only use once fired brass. You get a new bullet, primer, and powder.
How could any company that loads millions of rounds per year guarantee that they're using only once fired brass? I only load a few thousand a year and the only way I can be certain that it's once fired is if I shot the original factory ammo on a freshly swept, paved range.

Just because a fired case has a crimped in primer is no guarantee that it's once fired, there are processing services that will do that, or you can do it yourself with the proper punch.

From the Ultramax LE sales website:
FIRED BRASS EXCHANGE
We will take your fired brass in on trade toward the purchase of any Ultramax Ammunition. We also buy large quantities of fired brass, then we can credit your account for your next purchase.

SORTING BRASS
We will sort your mixed brass for you. We make it easy! Simply sweep up your fired brass, remove the garbage and powder from the brass, pack it in boxes and you're set.
http://www.ultramaxammunition.com/law/orderinginfo.php
Note that no mention is made of buying only "Once Fired" brass.

Look on the Black Hills remanufactured ammunition page, they make no claims about using once fired brass either.
I'm not pointing this out in an attempt to claim that reloaded ammo from reputable manufacturers is dangerous. I just think potential purchasers should know what they're getting.

I have no doubt that incoming brass is inspected to weed out potentially unsafe or otherwise subpar cases, but there's no way that they could possibly ensure that the brass they're loading is once fired.
 
I have a good friend ,experienced gunsmith, reloader and benchrester, who loads match grade ammo for me. Knowing myself, I trust him a lot more then I trust myself.
He reloads on once fired brass that I provide from lapua match ammo (i fire myself).

On the other hand, I got a couple boxes of reloaded 44-40, several with damaged cases.
I gave them away to a friend/reloader, under strict promise he would not shoot them but pull them and reuse whatever was useable.
 
So last night I finally got around to taking a few rounds apart and weighing out the powder charges. I pulled 15 rounds and they were very consistent. The bottom of the scale was 24.4 grains with the top being 24.5 grains. I'm still not 100% happy with the purchase but I don't believe the ammo will hurt my gun so I am going to shoot it out and start the reloading process for this caliber.

With the charges being that consistent, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
The problems you had with the defective rounds were issues related to the seating/crimping process. They had an issue with a seating/crimping die it looks like. There is no reason IMO to automatically assume they are not good at what they do. They just need to tighten QC up some to catch the problem if an issue like that occurs. I am sure that Remington, Winchester and Federal have issues like that occasionally, they just catch them most of the time before they hit the shelf.

It sounds like they took care of the issue for you and made it right.

I know it is frustrating, but at least it sounds like it ended fairly well.
 
With the charges being that consistent, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
The problems you had with the defective rounds were issues related to the seating/crimping process. They had an issue with a seating/crimping die it looks like. There is no reason IMO to automatically assume they are not good at what they do. They just need to tighten QC up some to catch the problem if an issue like that occurs. I am sure that Remington, Winchester and Federal have issues like that occasionally, they just catch them most of the time before they hit the shelf.

It sounds like they took care of the issue for you and made it right.

I know it is frustrating, but at least it sounds like it ended fairly well.

I agree they did make it right. It's just that I spent 10 years in the quality department at a Tier 1 automotive supplier (steel stamping and welded sub-assemblies) and stuff that that would get you in deep S!!t with any manufacturer. As I shoot out the Ammo I will hold a few rounds back and then test them when I get a Chronograph next summer, just for kicks.

Pete
 
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