Best possible active hearing protection?

My response is not about hearing protection but I have a question. Where do you live that you have to get a license to buy a gun? What do you have to do to get a license?

Thanks, Lafitte

Thank you for the reply, now I understand. I have been in Europe several times in various countries and know that some gun laws are very different from ours.

By the way, as far as hearing protection, I use "plugs", I look for a product with good Noise Reduction Rating, (NRR) Usually something in the NRR range of 23 or 24. I spent a good bit of time in the army artillery and at the time we didn't use hearing protection even down in the firing batteries. Yes, it did effect my hearing some.

Lafitte

"Do i need to use extra in ear protection to go with active earmuffs?"

I'm not sure 'need' is the right word, but my usual practice is to use earplugs and electronic muffs, with the muffs turned up high enough I can clearly hear voices. That lets me hear range commands (or other shooters if I'm running the range), while still minimizing the gunshot noise that gets to my tender pink eardrums.

Just in terms of personally perceived comfort, either just plugs or just muffs is OK for the quiet end of things - suppressed weapons, rimfires, outdoors, etc. Under a roof next to an ultramag with a muzzle brake, I want both (or to be somewhere else ).

I use and like the Howard Leights but this may help you.
https://youtu.be/7IL8InVDHkY

"Best" is subjective and difficult to establish absent any testing, which is fraught with all sorts of audio standards, protocols, etc. Unlike silencers, most of the shooting public has no idea of what constitutes the noise rating reductions that are listed on the product.

Like hp, lumen ratings, and FPS figures on ammo, the makers test protocol to establish their published number can take advantage of certain aspects of the regimen. And one conservative makers numbers which look low might be equal to or better than anothers slightly higher figures.

What is known in practice is that a large number of users combine both active muffs AND foam plugs or inserts to get the best possible combination. I've been using Peltor muffs and the rare shot under a canopy with an extremely loud gun - say, an AR pistol in 5.56 with 10.5" barrel - will overcome even the static dampening abilities of the muffs and leave me with an ear ringing. Because searching the net showed all the major muff makers customers report the same situation, I'd say we aren't going to produce a consensus which is "best" in terms of noise reduction.

One factor is that the human skull is exposed to the noise, too, and a large wave front impacts the entire head, transmitting it to the inner ear. Muffs don't dampen the entire bone structure. Another is that there can be a wide range of volume differences - inside a closed structure, or under a canopy, the volume is dramatically higher. You're trapped in a resonance chamber and subject to it's full effect. That's why I step forward of the canopy on the public range I attend to get the muzzle blast out into the open, especially with that AR pistol, and when it's not my turn, I step out again having taken the station down on one end next to the berm, escaping the canopy and it's effect.

Pick a muff by it's numbers, if it's available, and if you can afford them, then be prepared to add additional inserts to get the best protection. At this point in the progress of hearing protection the "best" muffs are likely to be invented yet. I suspect they will resemble a tactical team helmet with attached ear cups and we will still need additional attenuation inserted in the ear canal regardless.

I didn't understand why some were doing that. Now I do and I'm going to do the same, when in an enclosed area double up and be prepared for that to get compromised.

- MSA Sordin ProX
These get good user reviews but their NRR is low. There is an Internet Expert who explains that they are really quiet and safe, just that the standard rating system does not show their true quality. I would like to test his claim but they are too expensive to experiment with.

- Howard Leight Impact Pro
I have a pair of these. They are reasonably quiet but not very comfortable on MY head. I only use them at a couple of specific events where I actually need to hear conversation.
The more common Impact Sport has a much lower NRR.

- Peltor Pro Tac II
A friend wears these and I used to have an earlier model that I liked very well.

Also, the Pro Mag Gold is quiet and comfortable, but expensive.


What I actually USE, other than the occasional event where I need the HL's electronics, is good passive protection. Pro Mag Ultra and Peltor Ultimate 10 for pistol, foam plugs for long guns.

You should understand that the electronics add nothing to the protection, they just transmit outside sounds until cut off by the shockwave of a shot. They are not noise cancelling, which doesn't work with impulsive sounds like a shot.
If you don't need to hear an instructor or a lot of range commands, passive is much less expensive and lighter in weight.

I have a genetic condition which makes me extremely sensitive to loud, sharp noises. A terrible affliction for a shooter to have.

When I was in the Armed Forces, they didn't know/pay much attention to hearing damage, so we stuffed the expended brass into our ears. I don't know if it helped any, but it seemed to.
I used the earmuff style protectors for years, and had the same problem you mention...understanding conversation.
Years ago, my wife gave me a set of Caldwell Electronic ear defenders for Chrlstmas. They were on sale, and inexpen$ive. They have served me well for years. The only thing that has worn out are the foam covers for the microphones, which the manufacturer replaced at no cost. I have not seen the need for the foam ear plugs in addition to my headset, but I realize that some folks do.

I imagine in Europe, there are any number of sporting goods stores that will have knowledgeable employees that can help you make the right selection.

Good luck!

+ on using plugs + active when indoors.

I use the HL's.

Jim Watson, The NRR numbers you refer to are AMERICAN STANDARD numbers, the procedures for arriving at sound noise numbers for the SORODIN PRO-X muffs are foreign procedures and use A DIFFERENT METHOD TO ARRIVE AT. (NOT USA STANDARD MEASUREMENTS AND PROCEDURES), THEY COME FROM THE NETHERLANDS. I own 2 sets and people remark how wonderful they are. Many military folks really like the units. $300 and up, as they have a variety of different and complex ones.

Thank you for the explanation, but I cannot fully credit it.

They are sold here by MSA and are rated at NRR 17-19 dBA by Michael and Associates in Pennsylvania.
http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/minesafetyappliances/IAC-09-014-Z04-ANSI_CAL_r1

Pro Tac Mag Gold for me. Even if the batteries die you get 30 dB of protection. (Their larger model has 33 dB)

I bought mine online during a Labor Day sale years ago and saved $50 or $60.

I got the model that uses CR123 batteries so I can always rob a flashlight for spares. I actually had to do that this past Saturday on a farm far from town.

Gargamel said:

Because i take hearing protection VERY seriosly i want the best possible earmuffs. I asked shooters around me, checked the internet and i get 3 possiblle anwers:

- MSA Sordin ProX
- Howard Leight Impact Pro
- Peltor Pro Tac II

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I chose the Howard Leight Impact Pro. A fine product. I can recommend it. Rated at 30NRR.

I am almost deaf. Gotta save what's left. Combine with earplugs.

A couple of thoughts that might be helpful....

Past a certain point, more sound protection doesn't matter. As tirod pointed out, you also hear through bone conduction. In addition, you hear through your eustachian tube, which connects your inner ear with your mouth. Once you have enough ear protection that the other routes become dominant, additional ear protection is pointless.

My muffs are 33 dB. I use them when I am running my snowblower, or my table saw. It is amusing to open my mouth and hear the noise level pop up. Also, when drinking a carbonated beverage with them on, I hear the fizzing in my mouth quite loudly.

The dB ratings can create an incorrect impression. 10 dB is exactly 10X change, 20 dB is exactly 100X change, and 30 dB is exactly 1000X change. To a close approximation, 3dB is 2X change. So a 20 dB muff reduces sound power 100X, but a 23 dB muff is twice as good, 200x. A 33 dB muff reduces sound power by 2000X.

In a pinch, wad up a square of toilet paper and moisten slightly with saliva, one per ear.

For noisy guns (30 tokarev comes to mind) or at a range, add a pair of earmuffs over the top!

I have a pair of Walker's Razor XV-8T. They're plug style and electronically augmented so you can conduct conversations and hear range commands. They also have Bluetooth capability that pairs with my iPhone. Not very hi-fi so music isn't very good, but they work fine with the telephone.

When shooting indoors I use both the Walker's and Leight Impact Pro cans. As someone else noted above, I wear eye glasses and the temple pieces make the cans less effective than they normally would be.

Lafitte said:

Thank you for the reply, now I understand. I have been in Europe several times in various countries and know that some gun laws are very different from ours.

Lafitte

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That's because they do not have our second amendment.

Reduce sound levels

The worst offenders for loud noise are roofs, muzzle devices, revolvers, and large powder charge. The culprits here are noise emitted or reflected anywhere but down range. The only loud guns I shoot are AK47 and AK74. I have removed both muzzle breaks because research has shown that muzzle brakes increase the pressure on the eardrum by about 100%. Furthermore, research has also shown that muzzle brakes have a negligible to no effect when shooting semi-automatic.

A roof is nice when the sun is hot or it is raining. Supposedly, roofs can be fitted with sound absorbent materials. This is expensive and the effects are not easily measured. If anyone has info on measuring gunshot sound, please let me know

hso said:

Be certain to select protective eyewear that minimizes the gapping of the pads on your muffs to minimize the sound that gets through that gap.

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Do you have suggestions, HSO? My shooting glasses leave a noticeable gap, so I usually just wear plugs.

Strap glasses

JudgeHolden10 said:

Do you have suggestions, HSO? My shooting glasses leave a noticeable gap, so I usually just wear plugs.

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Use glasses that are kept in place with a strap.