Single Action Ruger Question

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jmar

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I'm going to be buying a building a gun soon and i have a few questions.


Is the Ruger Blackhawk 3 screw .357 Flattop the same size as the non Flattop .357 Blackhawk? "excluding the top strap of course" Or is the flattops frame slightly smaller?

Second question, is the .357 3 screw blackhawk smaller than the .44 3 screw Blackhawk?



Vaqueros now, Is the old model Vaquero bigger than the 3 screw .357 Blackhawk?

What calibers did the old model vaqueros come in and are all the old Vaqueros the same size despite caliber?


I'm basically trying to find the smallest gun to start my project on. Thanks
 
1. YES
2.YES
3.YES. YOU SIR, need to read the many fine books on ruger SA sixguns as they are fascinating !!
4.
The Old model 3-screw 357 is the smallest of all the Blackhawk series of SA pistols.

And so it goes...
 
Howdy

Left to right in this photo of three Three Screw Rugers are a 44 Mag Flat Top, a 357 Mag non-Flat Top for want of a better term, and a 357 Mag Flat Top. It should be obvious from the photo that the cylinder of the 44 Mag has a larger diameter and is longer than the 357 cylinders, and that means the frame has to be larger too. Whether or not the Three Screws were Flat Tops or had the ears protecting the rear sight did not make any difference in frame size.

Centerfires%2002%20SN%20altered_zpsn9o33db0.jpg


Probably not so obvious in this photo, but the 'original model' Vaquero at the top of the photo has a larger frame than the New Vaquero below it. The 'original model' Vaqueros all had the same large frame as a modern New Model Blackhawk with the transfer bar, regardless of caliber. The 357 'original model' Vaqueros were very heavy guns because the cylinders were so large and the holes were so small.

The 'original model' Vaqueros were available chambered for 357 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt. There were also some chambered for 44-40, but not very many, and there were some available with convertible cylinders for 38-40 and 40 S&W, but there were not very many of those made either.

Vaquero%20New%20Vaquero%20Comparison_zpssvspxkjj.jpg
 
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Thanks guys i have the info i need. I'll search for a 3 screw 357.
 
Not to rain on your parade, but in 1972 when Ruger introduced their "improved" Blackhawks they also brought forth a conversion kit that included a transfer bar safety for the previous three-screw models. They offered it for free to owners that wanted the advantage of being able to carry with the cylinder fully loaded. Tens-of-thousands took him up on it and sent guns back to the factory.

I suspect you might be visibly upset if you spent big-bucks for the older model and it arrived with the aforementioned modified lockwork. Since whatever you get will be second-hand, be sure what you are buying. :uhoh:
 
Old Fuff said:
Not to rain on your parade, but in 1972 when Ruger introduced their "improved" Blackhawks they also brought forth a conversion kit that included a transfer bar safety for the previous three-screw models. They offered it for free to owners that wanted the advantage of being able to carry with the cylinder fully loaded. Tens-of-thousands took him up on it and sent guns back to the factory.

I suspect you might be visibly upset if you spent big-bucks for the older model and it arrived with the aforementioned modified lockwork. Since whatever you get will be second-hand, be sure what you are buying. :uhoh:
Click to expand...
Thanks for your concern but i'm aware about that. I'll be sure to make sure it's non converted. I also read that they can be easily converted back so it may not be a big deal if i get a converted one.
 
Thanks for your concern but i'm aware about that. I'll be sure to make sure it's non converted. I also read that they can be easily converted back so it may not be a big deal if i get a converted one.
Click to expand...

When you can find them, the parts to un-convert them go around $200 ~ $225.

Bob Wright
 
When you can find them, the parts to un-convert them go around $200 ~ $225.
Click to expand...

I have come across a couple of converted Three Screws. I have never come across the parts to unconvert them. Ruger absolutely will not sell you the parts. I pass every time I come across a converted Three Screw.
 
What i meant by easy was no modifications required. I was hoping a company reproduced the original parts for a reasonable price. Any out there?
 
Just for grins I just checked out Numrich Arms (www.gunpartscorp.com) who are a big supplier of surplus parts. When it came to Ruger 3-screw Blackhawks they had a few screws, pins, stocks, and springs - but otherwise ZIP.

I don't believe anyone is making aftermarket parts, as these revolvers have been history since 1972. Ruger themselves will only sell the conversion parts, and those that carried over from the old to new models such as ejector tubes and rods, adjustable sights, etc.

Your best bet by far is to go to some of the quick/fast draw web sites and see if anyone has a 3-screw fanner for sale. Not likely but sometimes lightning strikes. Expect that anything you find probably has considerable mileage on it.
 
You can sort of scrounge around and find a part here and there. At times Dave Cements has had both hammers and triggers that he has made. The triggers are of the wide smooth style for use with Old Army Grip frames. His stock is not always available, though.

Incidentally, Hamilton Bowen will convet any three screw he works on.

Bob Wright
 
well some smaller centerfire conversions are made on single six frames which is smaller.
 
I own a 3 screw 22lr/22wmr single six and never sent back for the conversion. I understand a preference for the original but is there a practical downside to the conversion? Also how does one recognize a 3 screw that has been converted.
 
I think the downside is more imagined then real, but on the collector market unconverted guns are worth more, other things being equal.

If you have the revolver in hand, cock the hammer and you can where metal has been removed to accommodate the transfer bar, and the bar itself.

Bill Ruger introduced the transfer bar design because of drugstore cowboys who through pure ignorance and stupidity would shoot themselves or others while plying gunfighter, and then sue the Ruger Company for making an unsafe product. Sometimes they actually won and collected big damages. The new design sharply reduced the success of such suites, but sometimes did not sit well with some traditional users.
 
Be careful, the newer small framed blackhawks have steel gripframes and are heavier than the three-screw guns (aluminium gripframes).

murf
 
From what I understand my 2005 50th ann. has steel ejector housing and grip. Can't say I've heard the newer ones do, but don't know. Extra weight is not always a bad thing but mine is plenty heavy
 
Old Fuff said:
I think the downside is more imagined then real.............
Click to expand...

I had a Super Blackhawk returned to the factory and Ruger installed the conversion. Fortunately I kept the original parts.

As the gun came back after conversion, trigger pull was exceedingly heavy and rough. And in functioning, it was prone to skip a chamber as the action was cocked. I removed that assembly as soon as I could.

I have bought two Three Screw .357 Magnum Blackhawks, both of which were converted. They did function much better than my Super, but there was a "ratchedy-clackedy" feel as the hammer was cocked, and both had atrocious triggers. Converted both back to original, and made one into a .44 Special.

Bob Wright
 
I have seen several that meet Bob's description, and two that had received some after-sale TLC and were quite presentable. Unfortunately Ruger revolvers are a bit rough when they come from the factory, but they are also very affordable.

The hand that rotate the cylinder is activated by the hammer as it is cocked. The movement of the transfer bar is done by the trigger.

Jmar proposes to make a revolver specifically intended to be a "fanner" The fanning technique requires that the trigger be pulled and held back while the hammer is still not cocked. The hammer is then manipulated with the edge and palm of the other hand. The trigger is not released until the last shot in the sequence has been fired. Thus during the entire procedure the transfer bar is raised to the "fire position" and does not move.

All of this is not the Old Fuff's cup of tea, but his preferences are not the point of this thread. For the record, his personal Ruger single action revolvers have not been converted, but they are never fanned and are carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. His super-fast draw is measured in minutes, and so far he has managed to not shoot himself. :D

In passing it should be noted that the loading method in the latest Vaquero series have had a design change so they operate exactly the same as the older 3-screw Blackhawks and Colt/clone Single Action's. The cylinder no longer freewheels.
 
Old Fuff said:
I have seen several that meet Bob's description, and two that had received some after-sale TLC and were quite presentable. Unfortunately Ruger revolvers are a bit rough when they come from the factory, but they are also very affordable.

The hand that rotate the cylinder is activated by the hammer as it is cocked. The movement of the transfer bar is done by the trigger.

Jmar proposes to make a revolver specifically intended to be a "fanner" The fanning technique requires that the trigger be pulled and held back while the hammer is still not cocked. The hammer is then manipulated with the edge and palm of the other hand. The trigger is not released until the last shot in the sequence has been fired. Thus during the entire procedure the transfer bar is raised to the "fire position" and does not move.

All of this is not the Old Fuff's cup of tea, but his preferences are not the point of this thread. For the record, his personal Ruger single action revolvers have not been converted, but they are never fanned and are carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. His super-fast draw is measured in minutes, and so far he has managed to not shoot himself. :D

In passing it should be noted that the loading method in the latest Vaquero series have had a design change so they operate exactly the same as the older 3-screw Blackhawks and Colt/clone Single Action's. The cylinder no longer freewheels.
Click to expand...
I bought a New Vaquero only a few years ago and it has the thing where you load by opening the lading gate and there's no half cock. When did this change happen?
 
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