New gun "transferred" at FFL?

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wild cat mccane

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Hello,

I just purchased a gun online and it has arrived at my local FFL. It has not be transferred to me.

I have asked the gun shop if I could return it under their exchange policy that says $25 fee (no mention of shipped guns). They say no, it has been transferred to the FFL and is no longer returnable.

Is this true?

Thanks!
 
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I can't think of any law that dictates what happens here, but I will take a guess as to what is going on.

You ordered the gun online, and they were not going to make anything other than their normal transfer fee. Your wanting them to ship it back is going to cost them more than that $25 fee, so they don't want any part of it. Too much hassle for them.

Just a SWAG on my part.
 
I am assuming that the “exchange” policy is that of your FFL [for a gun you might buy from them], not the seller. If you want to return the gun, it would depend on the inspection period and return policy of the selling dealer. Return shipping would be at your expense for whatever your FFL wants to charge to ship it back to the seller. It’s not an exchange to your FFL.
 
wild cat mccane said:
...I have asked the gun shop if I could return it under their exchange policy that says $25 fee (no mention of shipped guns). They say no, it has been transferred to the FFL and is no longer returnable...
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You're not clear here, but as I read your statement the return policy is that of the LGS (Local Gun Shop) which would be handling the transfer to you. If so, I understand the FFL's position.

That exchange policy probably applies to guns bought from the LGS. Your gun was not bought from the LGS. It was purchased from someone else and is merely being transferred to you by the LGS.

Is that what's going on?
 
There's no legal reason they can't send it back, but as suggested, they probably feel that it's too much hassle. I'm betting they would if you paid them the transfer fee and return shipping costs, but I certainly wouldn't blame them for not wanting to send it back on their dime after already wasting the time logging it into the A&D book.

I have a similar arrangement when I have to order in parts from dealers or online. If the vehicle isn't here, the customer pays up front. If they, for whatever reason, do not do the repair and want a refund, it is less whatever shipping and/or restocking fees are, plus a couple bucks for my time dealing with it. I'm certainly not gonna eat it.
 
Sorry. My bad description.

My FFL is happy to send it back. Great relation with the guy.

The online store (ie, the "gun shop" as I mislabeled it above) is telling me it is "transferred" once the FFL takes possession. Their return policy is 25 bucks. When I contacted them they said that is only for unshipped and I would have to pay shipping back. As you can see, there is conflict in that sentence.

I am happy to pay all fees and shipping. There really is no bother on any ends at this point.

So it is now a question of, is the gun "transferred" when my FFL takes the gun and waits for me.
 
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It's not a transfer when the FFL accepts shipment. Its a transfer when you pass your background check and walk out with it. The FFL at no point owns it.
 
I am being fully cooperative to pay all expenses to the gun seller shop. The gun is in huge demand and sold out as a special. They will have 0 problem selling it. No issue there.

It sounds like I should continue to push the issue of asking for the return (at full cost to me) and not pick it up...?
 
Acera said:
Good question, it seems like the original seller is considering a 'transfer' as a change in possession. I see their point, as that applies. However, I understand your idea of 'transfer' meaning change in ownership.

Here is something to look at, http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.4.2.16.1.html
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  • I'm afraid that citation (27 CFR 479.11) isn't applicable here.

    Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations sets out the regulations adopted by the ATF. But scope of Part 479, which includes 479.11, is defined at 27 CFR 479.11 as follows:
    479.1 General.

    This part contains the procedural and substantive requirements relative to the importation, manufacture, making, exportation, identification and registration of, and the dealing in, machine guns, destructive devices and certain other firearms under the provisions of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. Chapter 53).​
    Click to expand...

    So unless the gun the OP bought is a Title II gun (i. e., subject to the NFA), the definitions set out at 27 CFR 479.11 wouldn't apply. In any case, under 479.11, "transfer" means:
    This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include selling, assigning, pledging, leasing, loaning, giving away, or otherwise disposing of.
    Click to expand...

    ATF regulations applicable to firearms generally are found at Part 478 of 27 CFR. The definitions applicable to Part 478 of Title 27 are found at 478.11 and don't include a definition of "transfer."

  • However, the word "transfer" generally includes a change in possession -- not just ownership -- some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):


Jackal said:
It's not a transfer when the FFL accepts shipment. Its a transfer when you pass your background check and walk out with it. The FFL at no point owns it.
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Where do you get that idea? It's not consistent with what the word "transfer" means. See above.

However, notwithstanding the foregoing digression into the legal meaning of the word "transfer", I don't think that's what this matter is really about.

It appears to me that this is all about how the selling dealer interprets and applies its return/exchange policy. It appears from what the OP wrote that the selling dealer will accept the return if the OP, as buyer, pays a $25 fee plus the full cost of return shipping.

Perhaps the selling dealer's rationale for its application of that policy is specious, and perhaps the selling dealer didn't accurate describe its policy in its advertising materials, and perhaps the OP theoretically has a legal argument that the selling dealer didn't accurately represent its return/exchange policy. But as a practical matter the OP is unlikely to get anywhere with those arguments.

It amy now just be a matter of the OP trying to negotiate the best terms he can for a return/exchange.
 
Well it's referred to as a cancellation fee, not a return/exchange fee.

I would interpret that to be a fee to cancel an order before fulfillment. i. e., before the item is shipped. Cancellation of an order generally refers to reversing the transaction before the item has shipped. Once something has been shipped, it's no longer a matter of cancelling the order. It's a matter of returning the goods.
 
Why did you buy a gun and then change your mind after it arrives at your local dealer?:scrutiny:

I understand returning a firearm when it is the wrong model, not as described or is blemished......but why do you think any retailer should take back a firearm AT ALL?:rolleyes:


wild cat mccane I am being fully cooperative to pay all expenses to the gun seller shop. The gun is in huge demand and sold out as a special. They will have 0 problem selling it. No issue there.
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That's not their problem. Whittaker sold the gun....now it's yours. If it's so in demand then YOU should have no trouble selling it. ;)



It sounds like I should continue to push the issue of asking for the return (at full cost to me) and not pick it up...?
Click to expand...
Why should Whittakers take it back?:scrutiny:
Buyers remorse should be an expensive lesson to keep it from happening again.
 
Here's the deal-

The FFL who shipped the firearm to your FFL records that it was transferred and to whom. Your FFL is then required to enter into their records that they received it and from whom they received it. If your FFL ships it back to the original FFL, they have to enter into their records that the firearm was again transferred and to whom it was transferred to. Then, once again, the receiving FFL must update their records accordingly
 
If returnable, a restocking fee may be charged, a minimum of 10% to 20% of the items price. Item must be in as shipped condition. Plus customer pays shipping and insurance to return item. Always know all terms of the sale before making a purchase.
 
I have heard that once transferred, it can't be considered 'new' anymore.

Also, no company has to take their product back as a return.

Sounds to me like you own the gun and they want nothing to do with it. Because you own the gun, you can now sell this 'high demand' item just follow your state laws.

The only thing that I can think of that might be causing issues are if we are missing some key facts. Did your legal ability to own a firearm change? (Did you get in some legal trouble? Did some form of FOID expire?) Is there some restriction on owning this specific make/model of firearm where you are located? (Example, it's not on a list of 'approved' firearms that some places have, and you didn't realize this at the time of purchase)
 
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