Ruger .45 ACP / .45 LC

I bought one brand-new four or five years ago. It is very accurate with either type of 45 ammo. I usually shoot 45acp out of it. It is one of my most accurate handguns. I like it very much.

IIRC, all factory 45 handgun bullets are .451 jacketed, .452 lead. Alll newer (past 50 years) 45 Colt revolvers are made to accommodate these bullets. Older 45 Colts had a bore for 454 bulllets. Someone with more knowledge can give more specifics.

Tallball, that's no Redhawk!

I was interested in the convertible Redhawk but have read that accuracy suffered with .45 ACP. I'm not a huge fan of moonclipped revolvers anyway so I decided to pass.

IIRC, all factory 45 handgun bullets are .451 jacketed, .452 lead. Alll newer (past 50 years) 45 Colt revolvers are made to accommodate these bullets. Older 45 Colts had a bore for 454 bulllets. Someone with more knowledge can give more specifics.

Click to expand...

Howdy

When the 45 Colt cartridge was conceived in 1873 for the Colt Single Action Army, groove diameter was .454 to .455. Chamber throat diameter was specified at .450. Yes .450. These tight chamber throats worked because the original 45 Colt cartridges carried a 250 grain soft lead bullet with a slight hollow base. Bullet diameter could vary a bit, so in theory, the base of the bullet would expand in the bore to engage the rifling. Later, chamber throat diameter was increased to .452.

Colt SAA production ceased in 1940 just before WWII.

When Colt began producing the SAA again in 1956, barrel groove diameter for 45 Colt was changed to .451, the same as 45 ACP.

Regarding lead vs jacketed bullets, it is normal to choose a lead bullet that is .001 over sized of the groove diameter, while it is also normal to choose a jacketed bullet that is the same diameter as the rifling grooves. This is because the softer lead bullet will swage down in the bore, but it is better to choose a jacketed bullet that is the same diameter as the rifling grooves.

For what it's worth, my 45 Colt/45 ACP Blackhawk that I bought in 1975 has always shot fine with both types of ammo.

As noted before, I worked with two of the new Redhawk Convertible samples, and several factory loads in both calibers.

In both samples, ACP accuracy ran from abysmal (13 inches at 25 yards with one load) to passable (2-3 inches with a couple others).
By & large, you may have to try several ACPs to find one the gun will shoot tightly.
Ignition with ACP clips has also been a reported problem.

Heavy (as in HOT!) .45 Colt loads are not fun to shoot with the rounded gripframe.
.45 Colt accuracy was good in both guns.

There's a full write-up in a Kindle eBook through Amazon.com if you have the ability to access it & want much more info.
Denis

Edited to add that you can't use Auto Rims in this gun & you can't use S&W clips.

JudgeHolden10.....I believe I've read the .45 auto rim is too thick to work in the newer .45colt/.45acp Redhawk?

One of the big differences between the convertible Blackhawk and the Redhawk is that the Blackhawk comes with an extra cylinder sized and cut for .45ACP. You are not shooting .45ACP out of a .45 Colt chamber like you are with the Redhawk. The entire .45 ACP round is shorter than a .45 Colt case so the ACP round is just laying in the bottom of the chamber with the bullet completely unsupported and misaligned to the cylinder throat. Once fired it takes a running start and slams into the throat. Maybe it aligns well, maybe it doesn't. Not exactly conducive to accuracy.

It's not a convertible. They just modified a 45 LC revolver so you can shoot 45 ACP through it. The Blackhawks are convertible as they have cylinders meant for either 45 ACP or 45 LC. Like eldon pointed out, accuracy will likely be inconsistent with the 45 ACP rounds because the cylinder is not designed specifically for them.

It is inconsistent for that reason.
Denis

.38 Special case is 1/8" shorter than .357 magnum. They are not that different in COL though. The bullet still enters the throat and is supported by it in all but the shortest bullets. Similar with .44 mag/special.

As mentioned, a loaded .45 ACP round is shorter than a .45 Colt case. The tip of the ACP bullet does not even break the plane of the throat, let alone contact it.

Look at a picture of the four rounds next to each other, and it should be pretty obvious what the difference is.

The convertible Red is a neat idea, it's just that there are limitations to shooting both calibers in the same cylinder that you don't encounter with the dual cylinders of the Blackhawk.

Any commentary about what the Blacks do is irrelevant to discussion of the Red.

The Red requires specific ACP clips that cost about $5 each, through Ruger.
There's another outfit selling them, but I have no experience with those.

The cylinder rear ends are machined completely different between Smith .45s & the Redhawk, Smith clips will not fit.
Auto Rim rims will not fit.

There may be ignition issues with the ACP clips.

You have a long unsupported "freebore" condition where the ACP bullet has to travel before it's captured by the chamber throat.

As an ACP-only revolver, I don't think it makes much sense.
Too heavy, too over-built, and too ammo-sensitive.

As a primary .45 Colt, with the ability to shoot the occasional ACP as backup, it has utility.

Another aspect is that ACP will generally not shoot to the same POA as the Colt loads, unless you match bullet weights & velocities between the two, so you may be changing the sights back & forth.

Not trying to talk you out of the gun, just make an informed decision.
Denis

Sorry to the OP. The post said "red", but my eyes saw "black".

I'll agree whole heartedly with DPris. My Redhawk, can shoot 45 Colt pretty accurately for what it is. The nice thing about it too is you can really crank it up if you so desire.
.45 ACP is just not that accurate in my sample. It's not horrible, and it's fun to plink with it, it just will never compare to any of my 1911's in the accuracy department. I also agree that the sights need to be adjusted for. They are not generally going to hit in the same place at any distance. At 7-10 yds, close enough but not for anything farther in my experience.

I still enjoy the gun quite a bit... glad to have it in my collection. I'd love to get a convertible Blackhawk some day too!

In a revolver, what would drive a choice between 45 ACP and the 45 Colt? I have both, though not in the same guns.

If I had to buy a new 45 revolver (and I don'), I'd buy the 45 over the ACP.

YMMV

The above arguments are exactly why I chose the 4.2" Redhawk in .45 Colt only. Mine is a fine, accurate and soft shooting gun. I've not tried any heavy loads yet but have fired 100 rounds of 250 grain cast over 9.2 grains of Unique. The recoil was much less than my New Vaquero with this load.

If you're looking for something to shoot ACP mainly, and LC occasionally, I'd recommend a 625 personally. Load it up with 45 Supers if you need something stouter.

If you need "Ruger only" Loads though, the 625 wouldn't be the best choice.

The 625 let's you use 45acp, super and auto rim.
If you reload, you can always play with seating bullets out further for a longer COAL and buy yourself more case capacity and velocity at the same pressure. That's something I'm starting to explore a little more with my 625, not only so I can get as much "oomph" as possible, but partially to keep my hot ammo out of my 1911's.

The .45 Super generates nearly the pressure of a .45 Colt Ruger load. I know shoot it in 625s, but I would be hesitant to, and I certainly would not advocate it without including appropriate warnings.

Eldon, people are reaming 625's to handle 460Rowland. I'd think Super is AOK

45ACP is at 21K PSI
45ACP +P is up to 23K PSI
Supers run up to 28k PSI
Rowlands run at 40k PSI
Ruger only 45LC is at 32K PSI

Seeing how people seem to be running the Rowland ammo without any issue, I'd think the Supers would be OK. Especially in limited use I don't see it being a problem. I'd personally stay away from the Rowland as I've got a 629 for that level of power.

I'm aware of the .460 Rowland conversions too, but people have also destroyed N-frames with less. Throughout its history, the 29 has been tinkered with and revised to get it to hold up to consistent .44 mag usage which only operates at 36kpsi these days and with a smaller diameter (ie less hoop stress and casehead thrust). Just because the gun doesn't explode at the first trigger pull doesn't mean it won't beat it to death over time.

Regardless, I think it warrants at least a warning when saying it will handle various rounds. The previous mention makes it sound no different than using .38 Special in a .357.

Thats fair. I very rarely load my rounds very hot, maybe 50 total rounds between over a half dozen cartridges have been at book maximum. Usually just to see if accuracy improves.
I tend to shy on the side of safety myself, just offering options someone may not have considered.
The OP seemed to want a 45acp first, and something warmer second. I thought it was a warranted suggestion.
Sometimes I forget some people need to be reminded not everything on the Internet is gospel. Just trying to point someone in the right direction.