What's the PRIMARY REASON why the Anti-2A Camp so often seems to be more successful at its mission t

What are the THREE PRIMARY REASONS why the Anti-2A Camp seems to be more successful at its mission?

  • Children once learned to respect and understand firearms. Today they are taught to fear and hate th

    Votes: 31 46.3%
  • The Anti-2A Camp has become expert at using the horrors of "mass shootings" to promote their agenda.

    Votes: 27 40.3%
  • The Anti-2A Camp enjoys superior leadership.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Urbanization has caused an increasing number to live in settings where they fear guns. There's simp

    Votes: 24 35.8%
  • Anti-Gun is simply easier to sell than Pro-Gun in today's world.

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • The Pro-2A Camp simply offend too many potential supporters with their constant rants against "liber

    Votes: 7 10.4%
  • Mainstream media aids and abets the Anti-2A Camp's mission.

    Votes: 53 79.1%
  • The Anti-2A Camp is simply better at using the media.

    Votes: 10 14.9%
  • Some who claim to speak for the Pro-2A Camp say some disturbing and sometimes scary things.

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • The actions of some alleged Pro-2A members (eg. open carry commandos) make the masses welcome more g

    Votes: 4 6.0%

  • Total voters
    67
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There's absolutely no way that someone like Gresham would advocate attacking (collectively or individually) "liberals" as some in the Pro-2A Camp are so quick to do. Absolutely no way.
Hmmm...I musta missed something in my post as nowhere can I find any mention of Gresham "attacking" anyone.

Tom is merely saying if you're voting HRC / Democrat in this election, you're not a 2nd Amendment / gun ownership supporter, despite protestations otherwise.

This was not his view for the longest of time, but with the now open attacks on gun owners by those on the left, he's had no choice but to admit the now obvious.
 
Articles about gun control are generally in response to EVENTS of gun violence.
USUALLY taking place in locations where NON-criminals are forbidden to possess firearms.

Of course I recall NYC Mayor David Dinkins calling for strict new gun controls in response to a... STABBING. Strangely, the NY Times didn't mock the sheer stupidity and dishonesty of his statements... much less censor them.
 
Tom is merely saying if you're voting HRC / Democrat in this election, you're not a 2nd Amendment / gun ownership supporter, despite protestations otherwise.
Given the VOLUMINOUS record of her anti-gun fanaticism, you could no more be a supporter of 2nd Amendment rights and vote for Clinton, than you could be a supporter of civil rights and racial equality under the law and write in David Duke for President.

Any claim to the contrary is simply dishonest.
 
It would be nice to have more on topic posts and less ad hominem. It's an interesting topic and deserves discussion.
 
I like Smith357's point (hope it is a Model 19)
Two other terms we should take back are "commonsense" and "sensible" perhaps couple them with "constitutional"
 
**Am I missing something, or is there no longer a way to make quote trees manually?**

"What's the message? Is it a message that is "newsworthy"?

Media outlets report events, not philosophies. "Guns are good" is not a new and controversial idea, it is an old and oft repeated statement. There is nothing to report about that."
And I suppose the Ab-Abber 2000 System is worthy of coverage? I'm talking paid distribution here, not fawning media coverage. There's a reason you NEVER see adds for firearms on TV, radio, or bill boards anywhere but out in the country, and it is not because they aren't selling in the urban markets. Time Warner, NBC Universal, and all the other big names have a stated RULE that they will not sell advertising that glorifies guns, sex, rock & roll, and whatever other Catholic-censorship-era standards are still kicking around the boardrooms (they're as strict as they've been since Leave it to Beaver and John Wayne, it's just the rules have changed)

"If you want to be in media, you have to generate interest by linking to topical events or creating controversy."
Uh-huh. Gun control seems to get plenty of coverage, but very little for gun rights, despite being direct complements to each others' controversy for the exact same events. Fail.

"Our side does not have anything new to say."
PLEASE stop saying "our" as you have any idea what we're about. You demonstrate either a profound ignorance, misunderstanding, or outright misrepresentation of the pro-gun position in practically every post anymore.

"However, if LaPierre were (for instance) to show up a BLM rally for Philando Castile, because he is concerned that the policeman killed Castile out of irrational fear of Castile's CCW, then that would get on the TV."
Yup, same as if he came out and endorsed Hillary and gun control, I bet he'd get more instant coverage, fame, and adoration than you'd ever believe. Don't see that as a winning strategy for us, as opposed to him, though. An off-topic tangent, but wasn't Castile the guy with the felony-prior and allegedly stolen gun in his lap when the cop rolled up (not as direct justification for lethal force, but as strong supporting arguments for the yet-unproven claim he did further stupid actions in the presence of the officer that DID warrant a lethal response)


"Thus, Marks and Engels wrote about about "communism", and the Soviets were "Communists"."
""Oh God, you're not one of those people who thinks Communism simply hasn't been done "correctly" yet, are you?""
"""No. I was just using that example because it is fairly well known."""
Okay, that's a piece of good news, at least. BTW, the Soviets never claimed to be practicing communism, that's why there called 'soviets' --they were socialists. Even from the very start they knew communism was a ridiculous fantasy, which is why they perpetuated the propaganda notion from Marx that the current horrors of socialism were but a temporary transition to the peaceful, decentralized utopia of communism. That's the only reason the Russians made use of the term 'communist' at all. Naturally, not even Marx ever bothered to explain why the totalitarian Soviet regime controlling the economy would dissolve itself into a bunch of hippie communes, or even how that could work without a regression to tribal pre-civiliazation.

"Articles about gun control are generally in response to EVENTS of gun violence. Occasionally, there are articles of gun support after EVENTS of gun usefulness, but those events are few and far between compared to the opposite."
Uh-huh. Even the most conservative estimates, put out by anti-gun researchers no less, put the number of defensive gun uses at like ten times the number of human shootings for any reason. The most liberal but still substantiated estimate was some 1.5 million back when Lott go into the gun research game years ago. It's adorable how you framed this in terms of 'gun violence' vs. 'gun usefulness,' as though a gang-banger shooting a mother of five deserves anti-gun coverage, whereas a mother of five shooting dead an attacking gangbanger is... still deserving of anti-gun coverage. Even though the mother's access to defensive means being restricted/denied is a fairly important issue in either case.

Just what do you feel is 'gun usefulness,' anyway? Hunting? At any rate, regardless of the details of the 'gun' story, why is it that you pretty much only see the anti-gun theories, explanations, and policy solutions parroted day-in-day-out after a shooting, even though pro-gun representatives not only have their own set of competing ideas to broadcast, but also the same motivations to improve public safety (in fact, the only demonstrable difference in aims is --you guessed it-- the elimination of civilian gun rights)

TCB
 
"It would be nice to have more on topic posts and less ad hominem. It's an interesting topic and deserves discussion."
We'll try to bear it in mind. Just remember you got a thread shut down a couple days ago after calling a fellow member a racist (and were calling us pro-gun zealots & flat-earthers)
 
"It would be nice to have more on topic posts and less ad hominem. It's an interesting topic and deserves discussion."
We'll try to bear it in mind. Just remember you got a thread shut down a couple days ago after calling a fellow member a racist (and were calling us pro-gun zealots & flat-earthers)
Actually, I got a thread shut down for saying that if someone says they are quoting a racist, and they can't name that person, the quoted person must be the one who wrote the quote in the thread. I don't think Deanimator is a racist, but he ought not to insist he's quoting some racist he can't actually name. That isn't a quote.
 
An off-topic tangent, but wasn't Castile the guy with the felony-prior and allegedly stolen gun in his lap when the cop rolled up (not as direct justification for lethal force, but as strong supporting arguments for the yet-unproven claim he did further stupid actions in the presence of the officer that DID warrant a lethal response)
Nope, he had been arrested for non-felony driving offenses, like driving with revoked license. Are you saying MN is handing out CCLs to felons? Stop reading just conservative news blogs and try a fact check website before you repeat everything you read.
Uh-huh. Even the most conservative estimates, put out by anti-gun researchers no less, put the number of defensive gun uses at like ten times the number of human shootings for any reason. The most liberal but still substantiated estimate was some 1.5 million back when Lott go into the gun research game years ago. It's adorable how you framed this in terms of 'gun violence' vs. 'gun usefulness,' as though a gang-banger shooting a mother of five deserves anti-gun coverage, whereas a mother of five shooting dead an attacking gangbanger is... still deserving of anti-gun coverage. Even though the mother's access to defensive means being restricted/denied is a fairly important issue in either case.
I'm not sure where you're getting that. I can recall several incidents where a citizen shot an attacker, but my point was simply that 1.5 million DGUs are not being reported to police or news agencies to become stories. Whose fault is that? In studies where people were only asked about DGU if they report they were a victim of crime, the DGU rate is extremely low. So if 1.5 million people are using their guns defensively, almost none of them think of the incidents as violent crime. How do you manufacture a news story out of that?

In your effort to find things to vehemently disagree with, I think you're missing the point of what I wrote. Namely, that "news" is driven by specific incidents. If the news reports the findings of a study, it is because the study is new. If the news reports someone doing something with a gun, it is because it is interesting and just happened. If the news reports something heroic, it is because that heroism is new public knowledge.

What the news doesn't report is the status quo. The king of Thailand is in the news because he just died. No one will be reporting next year that he remains dead. That isn't news.

If we want the general public to take a positive view of guns, there has to be a steady flow of positive news worthy events actually reported to the authorities and/or news. Certainly 1.5 million incidents could yield a few more news stories.
 
Actually, I got a thread shut down for saying that if someone says they are quoting a racist, and they can't name that person, the quoted person must be the one who wrote the quote in the thread. I don't think Deanimator is a racist, but he ought not to insist he's quoting some racist he can't actually name. That isn't a quote.
Sorry, the next time someone makes a racist statement, I'll demand ID. If they're online, I'll demand that they post a GIF of their driver's license.

You're fooling nobody, and your Harry Reid act is bombing.
 
Sorry, the next time someone makes a racist statement, I'll demand ID. If they're online, I'll demand that they post a GIF of their driver's license.

You're fooling nobody, and your Harry Reid act is bombing.
You are welcome to post a link to the place online that you are quoting. I only asked you to identify the people you were talking about, and you supplied a specific uncited quote in return.

I don't know who I would be trying to "fool". What I'm asking for and suggesting are right on the screen.
 
You are welcome to post a link to the place online that you are quoting. I only asked you to identify the people you were talking about, and you supplied a specific uncited quote in return.

I don't know who I would be trying to "fool". What I'm asking for and suggesting are right on the screen.
Yeah, I really should have demanded ID from the old Nazi cleaning a Lakewood, Ohio McDonald's when he stated that he "wasn't so sure" that the Holocaust was such a BAD thing.

I guess I missed the law which requires Nazis defending the Holocaust (and demanding the BANNING of the NRA) to show proper ID.
 
Yeah, I really should have demanded ID from the old Nazi cleaning a Lakewood, Ohio McDonald's when he stated that he "wasn't so sure" that the Holocaust was such a BAD thing.

I guess I missed the law which requires Nazis defending the Holocaust (and demanding the BANNING of the NRA) to show proper ID.
Maybe you should, if you want to use this one crackpot as your proof that a large amount of gun control is based on the racist belief of its supporters. But it just sounds to me that you talked to one crazy guy, not a broad representation of people who vote for gun control candidates.

He must have been an impressive figure.
 
Maybe you should, if you want to use this one crackpot as your proof that a large amount of gun control is based on the racist belief of its supporters. But it just sounds to me that you talked to one crazy guy, not a broad representation of people who vote for gun control candidates.

He must have been an impressive figure.
I've talked to plenty of others. They neglected to properly ID themselves as well.

But of course you're dedicated to (no pun intended) whitewashing the racist nature of gun control advocacy, from day one to the present.

One can only guess as to why that is, but there are a number of tantalizing possibilities... none of which reflect well upon you.

BTW - Have you ever mopped floors in the Sloane Ave. McDonald's?
 
I've talked to plenty of others. They neglected to properly ID themselves as well.

But of course you're dedicated to (no pun intended) whitewashing the racist nature of gun control advocacy, from day one to the present.

One can only guess as to why that is, but there are a number of tantalizing possibilities... none of which reflect well upon you.

BTW - Have you ever mopped floors in the Sloane Ave. McDonald's?
You REALLY need to read the rules of the forum and stop with the ad hominem attacks.

I don't think gun control is primarily racist because I know plenty of people who are in favor of gun control for reasons that have nothing to do with racism. I have lived all over the US and worked overseas. I can't imagine where you've been hiding where you have never encountered the foolishly well meaning people that comprise the majority of the gun control voters in the US.

The problem I have with your wacky theories is that our side needs to be able to take action, and if the majority of people on our side subscribe to crackpot theories about who our opponents are, the messages we craft to oppose them are going to be sorely ineffective. And, as the participation in this thread demonstrates, most of us realize we are already lacking in regard to effectively opposing the gun control argument.

If I was tasked to bring down the pro-gun side, I would clone people like you and put them everywhere. All you do is sew dissent, factionalism and infighting while insisting on your conspiracy theories. Just how far would you go to make sure that other people who oppose gun control - like you say you do - would be pushed out of your constantly shrinking group? It isn't that you are just against the soft gun owners who like hunting rifles and hate AR15s. You are against people like me that own military type rifles and just don't agree with your singular view of who the enemy is and how to oppose them.

Had I started the poll myself, your set of behaviors would have been one of the choices.
 
You REALLY need to read the rules of the forum and stop with the ad hominem attacks.
The term "Kafkaesque" comes to mind...

Let's look at the likely possibilities:
  1. You're a racist who's trying to "whitewash" racism. Seen plenty of those.
  2. You're an AHSA style fifth columnist who's desperately trying to obfuscate the White supremacism of the anti-gun left. They simply CAN'T be racist... because you say so. Seen plenty of them too.
Your argument in a "nutshell" (pun intended): "Stop the ad hominems, you gun loving poopy head!"
 
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The term "Kafkaesque" comes to mind...

Let's look at the likely possibilities:
  1. You're a racist who's trying to "whitewash" racism. Seen plenty of those.
  2. You're an AHSA style fifth columnist who's desperately trying to obfuscate the White supremacism of the anti-gun left. They simply CAN'T be racist... because you say so. Seen plenty of them too.
Your argument in a "nutshell" (pun intended): "Stop the ad hominems, you gun loving poopy head!"
I ask you to meaningfully demonstrate the racist intent of the majority of gun control, you tell a story about a guy at McDonalds, and I'm the one who's in denial?

If there is reason to belief that the majority or core of the gun control movement is motivated by racism (an interesting idea, that people would disarm themselves because they hate and fear others), then you could produce some evidence of that theory. Some leaked Brady Center memo, a recorded closed door fundraiser speech, some Facebook thing where liberal college students talk about race and guns. Really, anything would be better than what you've offered.

Even if you were right, your automatic assumption that any who doubts your theory must automatically be a co-conspirator is pure crazy talk. You can't support your own theory, but anyone who points that out must be part of it?


Is there anyone on THR that 100% agrees with Deanimator that the majority of the "liberal", gun-control voting minorities, Jews, gays, college educated, mother's, etc are all motivated primarily by racism?
 
The media plays a large part in it. I watched CNN after Sandy Hook and literally watched them trash guns every hour for six months. Their debates were usually done at a ratio of 3 anti gunners to one pro gunner and they would consistently interrupt and gang up on the one person they brought on to talk about guns.
 
By what were the kapos and judenrat "motivated"?
You may want to edit this so the sentence is readable, but it appears you are trying to equate the behavior of a few people in the worst possible circumstances to the behavior of all Jews in the US.
 
You may want to edit this so the sentence is readable, but it appears you are trying to equate the behavior of a few people in the worst possible circumstances to the behavior of all Jews in the US.
What a CURIOUS statement.

I wasn't aware that ALL THE JEWS IN THE US were anti-gun. Apparently neither are all of my gun owning Jewish friends, including the NFA collectors.

I guess you learn something new every day...
 
There is an organization called Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership so no, not all Jewish people are against guns. Anyways I'' sure the mods will swing by and axe this thread soon anyways because of how much it has drifted.
 
What a CURIOUS statement.

I wasn't aware that ALL THE JEWS IN THE US were anti-gun. Apparently neither are all of my gun owning Jewish friends, including the NFA collectors.

I guess you learn something new every day...
So what you're saying is that the Jews you were talking about from the Holocaust, would be the same as those who oppose guns. And that any Jew who like guns is somehow immune to whatever mental malady you're implying comes from those Kapo types?

So would you say liking guns prevents Jews from becoming like the Kapos, or are you saying the Kapo types are so pervasive that the large number of modern Jews who are for gun control are all like them?

Either way, it is a very interesting racial theory you have there.
 
Voting. That is the primary reason why the anti side got so far. People don't go out and vote. That and earlier we had an issue with fudds who didn't care about much other than their bolt action hunting rifles and pump/double barrel shotguns so they wouldn't vote in favor of things like Shall Issue or Constitutional Carry.

But as others have said if you look around we are winning. That is because everyone, fudds included, have gotten off their bums and started voting. What we need to do is keep up this momentum and keep an eye out for more attempts on our rights. That means that you get out and vote. If you don't vote because you believe that your vote doesn't count then I'd like to thank you for ruining our country.

Now as part of making sure we get out to vote, we have to present ourselves as a normal group. Gays didn't get marriage because of pride parades, they got it because they presented themselves as perfectly normal people. So present yourself well, be knowledgeable about the issues, and don't lose your temper. We all need to take the high road.
 
So what you're saying is that the Jews you were talking about from the Holocaust, would be the same as those who oppose guns..
There's ALWAYS somebody who will put his own short term, selfish interests above those of the community, be they Jews who kicked other Jews onto box cars, Blacks who supported the Daley machine and Blacks and Jews who support invidiously racist gun controls.

It's hilarious watching you frantically try to backpedal from your WILDLY anti-Semitic Freudian slip...
 
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