Gun Cabinet or Gun Safe???

Status
Not open for further replies.

folsoh

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
71
I currently own two Stack-On gun cabinets bolted to the studs. They are in my basement garage. I have about 14 long guns with about 10 pistols and its probably time to get a better safe.

My questions are do you think a $1400 to $1800 gun safe is necessary for most people?

I would be happy to buy another metal cabinet but having three of them is kind of ridiculous.
My plan is to buy a 30 Gun Safe like a Winchester Ranger or Liberty Colonial. Those are both available near where I live. I would put it in my basement which is for the most part very dry compared to most. I would then put one of the metal stack on cabinets in my upstairs garage for temporarily storing guns in during hunting season. So that I can quickly access them and keep them away from the kids. Kind of like a temporary gun storage locker. The other one I would use for some bb guns or storing reloading powders.

I was just wondering what people really use to store guns. I live in a good neighborhood and have never had any problem with theft. I feel like an idiot for asking if you should trust a $149 cabinet with $20,000 in guns. Two of my rifles and scope combos are worth $6,500.00 alone.

At one point, I planned on finishing the vault room in my basement and using it for storm and a gun room. I installed a metal door and a reg style lock in it. Then I questioned the security of the guns behind a cheap steel door and a reg door lock. Plus I would have to leave the door open sometimes to air it out. With kids this was not the best option so I have kept them in the steel cabinets until now.

Does everyone use the new electronic safe locks with key pad or is the old dial style better??

So do most people just bite the bullet and buy a big gun safe????
 
Last edited:
Your choices shouldn't necessarily depend on what most people do. You need to determine what you want or need to do.

I bought a Sturdy many years ago for my guns. I wanted a heavy, stout, fire resistant safe.

I also have two Stack-On cabinets, but neither holds any guns. One holds all my ammo, the other holds powder, primers, parts, accessories, stripped lowers, supplies, mags, holsters, etc.
 
Keep in mind there are a few variables to consider in addition to cost and level of security. There is also protection from fire, protection from humidity, and the sort of neighborhood you live in. There is also the question if you want your collection on display for your own benefit?

A really wealthy guy a few doors up the street has an honest to goodness "safari room" that would make the late Bill Ruger green with envy (so to speak.) Given the area, the way his house is built, etc., I seriously doubt he'll ever be ripped-off. Then again, fire could take his whole collection. In his case though, being able to readily view and fondle his weapons (he's also into knives) is a big deal to him.
 
I have the same type of cabinet as you. My neighborhood has no trouble whatsoever, my entire "collection" is worth less than a decent safe, and none of them are really sentimental. My only concern is keeping the kids' hands off of them when I am not around. Stack-on cabinets do that. Hopefully this helps you decide what your own requirements dictate.
 
folsoh;

I'm a retired locksmith who specialized in safes & safe sales. With the value of firearms you've stated, no you should not be looking for an $1,800.00 RSC. You should be thinking something upscale from that. At this time you have zero thermal protection and most of the very inexpensive cabinets can be forced by a motivated 12 year old. How much can you afford to lose? Any heirloom items, other irreplaceables that either yourself or other family would be devastated from the loss thereof?

And, keep in mind that in the budget range you've stated, all you're going to get is an RSC (Residential Security Container), which is not a true safe and will not provide the protection a true safe can. An RSC is a step up from the locking cabinet, but it's not a huge one. Your valuables, your decision, but do count the possible consequences of a catastrophic loss.

900F
 
My questions are do you think a $1400 to $1800 gun safe is necessary for most people?

What risks are you trying to safeguard against?
  • Theft?
  • Fire?
  • Flood?
How long do you expect the safe to bear up against the risk?

Based on your assessment of those risks, decide whether the safes you are looking at will offer that kind of protection. If not, then you have to decide to spend more or find other ways of mitigating your risk. You may decide to add a monitored alarm system to reduce the amount of time thieves have to attack the safe thereby allowing you to get by with a cheaper safe. This is a balancing act that only you can judge and you cannot cover every eventuality, just the most likely and most foreseeable ones.

Personally, I have a safe I got back in 1988 from Sears for $199. I see comparable safes at places like Gander Mountain for about $500 today. It offers no fire protection and my house didn't flood in the 1,000 year rain we had here in 1994, so all I expect it to do is make it hard enough to get into that the thieves decide it's better to steal the two Thinkpad computers in the same room than waste time trying to break into the safe before the police respond to the burglar alarm. If someone breaks into my house with the intent to steal my guns and they disable the alarm and bring their own power tools, they're going to get my guns. I accept that.

I would miss my grandfather's .45, my grandmother's .38 and my own 5.7mm Johnson, but insurance will replace the two pistols with new ones and the settlement check for the carbine will at least buy me another .30 Carbine rifle, so I accept the risk of an unlikely event.
 
Honestly I bought my safe years ago simply because I worked down the street from the manufacturer. Stopped in on a lark saw one I liked and they delivered it free.

These days I would say safe because of the potential, anywhere, of theft. I'd hate to find out that one of my stolen firearms was used to harm someone. I guess it comes down to responsibility. There are responsibilities that go with gun ownership and one is to keep them out of the wrong hands.
 
Folsoh - have you considered a used safe, esp. one that wasn't necessarily a "gun" safe?

I have a used safe that has a mechanical dial and is a metal/concrete laminate. The walls are 3-3.5" thick and the safe weighs about 3000 lbs. I am NOT using it for my guns as I'm a childless bachelor and mine are all close at hand around the house. I would have to build a wooden framework with 1x2" to hold the long guns and make a few shelves for the handguns but it has enough room for that. The internal dimensions are approx. 30" wide, 16" deep, and 50" high. It was bought from a safe company in St. Louis for about a grand, including delivery.
 
Over the years as my guns grew in numbers with many high end and expensive my wife's jewelry collection also grew. That combined with a collection of important documents and papers led to the first actual gun safe. The initial cost of a large safe was small in comparison to what the content would be. Following the Safe Vs. RSC (Residential Security Container) discussions I opted for a large safe and went with American Security. Here in Cleveland, Ohio aside from the sporting good retailers we also have Cleveland Safe which afforded me a large showroom. I was never a fan of electronic locks and went with the old classic tumbler lock mechanism. The empty weight was 1,500 Lbs. They deliver and do the setup which was nice. Had to remove a front entry door but it went in. Currently I am getting ready for another unit. The safe is lagged to a concrete floor and I do not see it going anywhere.

When it comes to popping $3,000 or so or even more you really have to look at what you need. This winter I'll rearrange the gun room and make room for a new safe. I also plan to add a sprinkler system since everything of value is in that room. You need to decide what works for you and planned expansion. Get out and physically look at what is out there available, what you plan to spend, and make your decisions. Unless you have a mule team jockeying around a 1,500 o 3,000 steel box can be a problem. I liked the delivery feature. :)

Ron
 
Not trying to divert discussion here but you should really step back and look at your entire security plan. Forgive me for using a military term but OPSEC (operational security) is probably more important to secure your firearms than what particular hardware you use.

E.g. how many people know of your firearms and how much they are worth, do you have substance abusing/troubled past relatives or acquaintances in your life, do you have a security alarm system and how fast is the response, is your house hardened at entry points, do you vet the tradespeople coming into your house (cheaper services often employ sketchy type individuals), do you receive gun mags or firearm related deliveries marked as such to your house, do you have a large breed dog, do you have insurance for the loss, do you keep tools that can be used to break into whatever security device you buy, are the tools locked up and secured in such a way that they are not easy to access, how close are the neighbors, do you watch for people following you from places such as the grocery store, bank, etc. where in the house are you planning to place the device, do you need to access the safe quickly, what about weapons for security at night outside of the safe, will you try to conceal it, and so on.

FWIW, I have seen a large, heavy security safe broken into. My father had bought one of those second hand premium safes from a grocery store going to the drop safe. The overall weight was about 1000 lbs and the door itself was several hundred pounds of steel and reinforced concrete. Some thieves used a cutting torch to cut into the safe door--it appears that they worked hours to breach the safe and finally broke through with in an area about 5-6 inches in diameter. What they did not know is that my father only kept a few dollars in the safe overnight--thus the paper money was burned up, second, just to get the stuff out of the way, my father kept several boxes of 12 gage shotgun shells in the safe which cooked off. Apparently, the burglars at this point had enough and fled the scene leaving a mess and the partially burnt contents of the safe untouched including a firearm (fortunately undamaged) given to my father by a friend. The safe was a top brand, know for its security, and was still breached because the thieves had the time and tools to attempt to breach it.

The moral of the story is that all security devices can be breached and overcome given the right circumstances--for example, people have been forced at gunpoint to unlock safes and so on. The key is to have a security plan and differing options in that plan if Murphy's Law happens as it usually does.
 
I lost three guns to thieves including a Winchester 1886. All my guns are now in safes- AmSec, and anchor bolted to the slab floor. One of them weighs in at 2,000 pounds empty. No safe is perfectly secure, they just delay thieves long enough for them to become discouraged and leave. Most of our bad guys are the "snatch and run" type petty crooks. Boom Boom refers to dedicated professionals looking for a big score.
 
I think it is important to define your purposes.

Are you looking to preserve some very significant guns from any loss? Then a safe (and probably not the 'residential security containers' that are what most 'gun safes' really are) is what you want.
On the other hand, if you have some firearms that you really like and are valuable, but can be replaced on the open market, then is an insurance policy against loss from theft, fire, etc. may be sufficient.

What about theft prevention? Here there's a sliding scale, and a moral component too.

A stack-on type locker is going to prevent your average smash-and-grab burglar from getting them. But then, a closet with a solid door and a keyed lock on the knob (and one of those foot long bits of metal attached to the door frame, as that's generally the part that breaks when kicked) accomplishes that. But so does an insurance rider.

Realize that spending more money on protecting your guns from thieves gives you diminishing returns. Any safe can be gotten into with enough time and/or enough of the right tools.

For me, my priority for my gun storage is to keep them out of the hands of children, or even teens. For that I think stack-on type lockers are just fine. It also gives basic theft protection, but the rest is through insurance. Same with the gunvault on my nightstand. A criminal could carry off the whole nightstand with ease. But a kid 'playing' isn't going to get ahold of the gun and shoot himself or someone else.

Part of this, though, is I have decided that if some criminal comes into my house with tools and defeats my cabinet with them in 5 minutes and the later on that gun is used by a criminal to commit a murder, that's not my fault. I made a reasonable effort to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals, but beyond that, criminals will be criminal, and I'm not going to bankrupt myself attempting to thwart them. You have to decide where along on that spectrum you are.
 
Fella's;

The locking metal cabinet does not meet the RSC qualification. In other words, the theft prevention time frame is far more properly measured in seconds, not minutes.

900F
 
Fella's;

The locking metal cabinet does not meet the RSC qualification. In other words, the theft prevention time frame is far more properly measured in seconds, not minutes.

900F

If they have a basic prying tool, yes, seconds.

If not, then the time to locate/improvise such a tool.

So don't put your metal cabinet next to your garage work bench, or have your toolbox close by.

However, if you have insurance, this part to me is not very relevant as far as theft. Where this is relevant is if you have family members who might be emotionally distraught. If someone in your family is, or maybe someday will become depressed enough to commit suicide, then yes, that same person is going to find a prybar, or just go and buy one, and pop that metal cabinet open in seconds. That would be my real worry. But then each person is unique in their needs.
 
I went with a big heavy gun safe. Some refer to it as a RSC, but it still weighs about 2000#. It cost about 10% of what my collection was worth.
 
Dial locks are much more reliable than electric locks but slower/more tedious, I went dial. Anything you need ready Access to must be stored elsewhere.

I did this same transition from cabinate to RSC, the cabinate will keep out small children, but not a teenager with a prybar, an RSC takes a strong man or two with a large prybar to get into. The doors are strong but the boxes are still sheetmetal.
 
I was just wondering what people really use to store guns. I live in a good neighborhood and have never had any problem with theft. I feel like an idiot for asking if you should trust a $149 cabinet with $20,000 in guns. Two of my rifles and scope combos are worth $6,500.00 alone.

Sounds like a safe is a better choice for you. Having a couple items that valuable mean they're worth protecting.

I have a cabinet mostly to keep honest people and curious kids out. A smash and grab type of person could spend a little bit popping it open, but it will slow them down a little bit...nothing more. I figured if I weren't home they could easily just go into the garage and use any of my tools and stuff to get anything they wanted open.

Most of what I own isn't that expensive or collectible either...where I'd really regret losing it and possibly not truly be able to replace it. The only really sentimental attachment is have is to my M1 Garands, and that's just because they're M1 Garands :) There are a lot more out there.
 
When I bought my Stack-On cabinet a great many moons ago, the guy who sold it to me said: "These are great--just don't mistake them for a gun safe."

They do what they do: keeping errant teenagers and small children away from your stuff, and deterring smash-'n-grab burglars. Anyone with a little more time and dedication will get in.

That having been said: rather than adding a safe, would it perhaps be cheaper to secure the room in which the guns are stored? Upgrading the door frame and door to the basement may be easier and less expensive.
 
I also went with Sturdy with fire lining and bolted to the concrete slab. It is a bit short of the definition of true safe as the walls are a hair short of 1/4' and the door is 3/8" rather than 1/2" and weighs 700 pounds. My collection is small and not worth more than maybe twice the cost of the Sturdy box.

A bit pricey for my budget, but the thought of buying a standard 11 or 12 GA RSC for a few hundred and losing those few hundred to persistent thieves on top of the value of the firearms made me decide for just one step up.

The used safe idea sounds really good, though I don't know where I would put something over 1500 pounds. Sturdy sells blemishes which might be worth a look.
 
In the beginning I had a real nice gun cabinet the wife purchased for me,once the collection got so big we purchased a Liberty gun safe and have never regretted it and wouldn't store my guns in any other fashion.
One thing to keep in mind if you buy a safe, decide on the size you think you need and buy the next size bigger! They do tend to fill fast!
 
As things are beginning to shape up -- or appear to be shaping up anyway with Hillary looking like she's going to clinch it next month -- how about digging a hole in your neighbor's backyard and securing them there? This way, when Big Brother's goon platoon comes a'ventilating your front door with a battering ram in the wee hours, you can innocently exclaim, "What? Who? Me?"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top