People who work at gun stores

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This happened to me on Thursday...

"Hi my name is *** let me know if there's anything I can help you with."

"Yes, I'm looking for either full wadcutters or at the very least semi wadcutters in 38 Special, I didn't see any on the shelf, so wondering if you guys are out or there might be some in the back?

"Did you say wadcutter? I don't know what that is..."

"You've never heard of wadcutters?"

/Sarcastic tone

"NO. Is that a word you made up?"

Sigh... I walked away.. tough week.

Why is it that gun owners feel the need to belittle people who don't know as much as they do? From your post it sounds like the clerk was friendly and asked if he could help. When you mentioned an item he wasn't familiar with he was honest and said he never heard of it instead of telling you they don't exist or trying to convince you that you really want something else. Take a minute and explain what you need. There's no need to be sarcastic and belittle people who aren't trying to pass themselves off as experts.

In my experience most people who have any real skill or knowledge don't make fun of people or lesser ability. That's something that insecure people do.
 
I attempted to buy a holster yesterday. Well, I did buy one, but the label lied in all respects, so I took it back. No fault of the staff.
Clerks at two different stores were generally helpful, although the second guy was more pleasant to talk to.
No startling revelations, no obvious ignorance or dazzling brilliance, just another day at retail.
 
Had a great experience with my LGS - very professional, polite, a minimum of tacticoolery/tactifoolery - knew what he knew, and was willing to listen to things he did not know (as hopefully I was too). He also gave his colleague a very professional but firm education when I asked about revolvers, and the (somewhat mall ninja-ish) colleague sniffed and said "Why would you want one of those, man?"

Also had a great experience in my local big box retail store - the clerk just nicely said "I'm sorry, I don't know anything about these. I just ring them up." Which is a totally honest and fair response from someone merely assigned behind the counter in one of these stores. She earned my extra politeness - I like when people know when not to play expert ...
 
So after reading the OP's post again after some much needed sleep let me ask for clarification. Was it the salesman who gave you the sarcastic attitude when asking about wadcutters? If so then disregard the tone of my first reply.
 
Many years ago I went to the store in North Hollywood CA to look for a "9". For some reason, I had to have one and asked the clerk for his recommendations. He placed a Walther P-5 and a Browning Hi Power on the counter and walked me through both of them in exquisite detail. I bought one and we lived happily ever after. That was service with a smile by a knowledgeable guy. As a kid, I learned much from gun store clerks whom I pestered when they were not busy. The San Francisco Gun Exchange being Holy Ground back in the 1960s. Those guys were amazingly patient with a kid too young to be customer. Naturally, I returned years later and bought from them.

More recently, I went to a chain store and all their revolvers were secured with zip ties. I asked how I was suppose to examine the piece and was told he could answer any questions I might have. I walked out.

I've bought from that same store. There are still a few that have informed staff that understands customer service. Those that don't I don't have the time to waste on them.
 
highlander 5 wrote:
I tend to over explain the facets of firearms,reloading and the like.

Actually, unless you're just totally egocentric, you would quickly adjust what you say to meet the needs and expectations of the customer. If it's something you have thought about seriously, you should consider pursuing it. You might find it enjoyable and your employer would profit from your knowledge.
 
So i walk into a local store and ask to look at a couple of their ar15s. The guy at the counter tells me its a preban (marked restricted leo/mil) and all I have to do is put a spring in it and I can make it a full auto. I informed him it was a post ban and it takes a lot more than a spring to make a full auto. He then tells me he doesn't actually know anything about them thats just what he heard.
 
This same issue exists with nearly everything you buy. Try getting someone to explain garden chemicals at your local Walmart. I recently bought a Remington R51 from my LGS and had to talk to 3 people to get the info I wanted. Also recently bought an electric trolling motor at Cabela's; had to speak with 2 different people to get accurate info. also asked a clerk at Bass Pro if they had any 17Mach2 ammo; he handed me a box of 17HMR and argued that he was giving me the right ammo. As I consider this issue I'm reminded of the need to EDUCATE YOURSELF and choose wisely when you are asking for advice. Can't emphasize enough the importance of learning everything you can about all manner of firearm issues.
 
i love 38 wadcutters. and i know at least young lady who now loves wadcutter (thank me!!).
I have no doubt some people like to shoot wadcutters.
The fact remains most don't buy them, so gunshops don't always stock them

There are really no 38 Spcl factory loads that sell all that well anymore.
 
"There are really no 38 Spcl factory loads that sell all that well anymore."

That is very interesting and wrong.Walmart, cabellas, sportsman warehouse, lucky gunner, Borners in Grost, Pintos in Renton, Bens Pawn shop,.They must be selling them because I see people buying them.
 
Theres usually atleast a box of winchester whites on the shelves here. I can honestly say Ive never seen a factory WC, much less one in 38spc.
 
There are tons of info on the internet. it is beyond easy to find out all the info on a gun before you walk in the store. there are forums set up for just one model of a firearm. if they had a bunch of experts working in a gun store they would have higher prices to be able to pay them so many would not go there
 
Going into most firearm stores is kind of like going to Lowe's or Home Depot. Some personnel are hourly, part time employees that just need a job while they're going to college or until they get the job they actually wanted. Others are knowledgeable, long time employees that know their business. I think gunstores are similar. In most cases, the guy working behind the counter knows just enough to complete a sale to a consumer that knows as much or less than the person behind the counter.

I have seen some pretty knowledgeable salesmen in local stores, though. But, these were also people that competed, went to carbine classes, and armorers classes etc. Much more involved with firearms than someone who just needed a job.
 
Stores tend to stock what sells
Almost no one wants 38 Spcl wadcutters.
I bet they had some LRN 38's

Yep, they are not a common item stocked in most stores, and more of a specialty item in even the best stocked LGS. Go to Midway USA and look at their stock of .38 caliber bullets and you see they handle 104 varieties, but only 4 are true wadcutters. Most Big box stores and LGSs will only have a fraction of that. I'd bet there are many long gun only enthusiasts and hunters out that could not tell you what they are either. Most Shotgunners will probably think it's something to cut the old fashioned paper wads once used in their ammo. Unless one is familiar with handguns and their types of ammo, it's like asking a non-woodworker what a tendon is.
 
I had 3 boxes of WInchester .38 WC ammo. It had been in the closet for decades. My grandson was up from Texas. I let him have a K-38 4" and the Wad Cutters. It was a joy to watch the kid roll cans with the old ammo. Now I know why I kept them 20 years. :)
 
That is very interesting and wrong.Walmart, cabellas, sportsman warehouse, lucky gunner, Borners in Grost, Pintos in Renton, Bens Pawn shop,.They must be selling them because I see people buying them.
People buy lots of things but compared to 9 mm, 357, and 45's, 38 sales are weak. Most that do buy 38's still want hollowpoints.
 
First rounds I ever reloaded with my Lee Reloading Kit were .38 Special wadcutters. They were pretty decent loads and my Charter Arms Undercover did very well with them. Can usually find some factory made ammo (by Fiocchi), at the local gun shows.
 
Well, call me contrarian, but I'm migrating back to the .38 spl, and the wife enjoys SWC target ammo, as do I.

To be fair on store employees, not every gun store employee is expert in everything - And even if they may have a reasonable working knowledge of some things, they might not have a detailed knowlege of the wide range of ammo. Yeah they may know FMJ vs hollowpoint, but may not be understanding wadcutters vs. semiwadcutters, spitzers, boattails, open tip vs. hollowpoint, etc. etc. I'll admit I don't know that I could ...

The problem is with those (in any profession) who have the hubris to pretend they do know everything).
 
I find the difference is primarily between the big box sporting goods stores like Gander Mountain and MC Sports in this area, and the smaller true gunshops. My experience is that the folks in the real gunshops are very knowledgable and in fact are who I rely upon to help me when I've had a problem (such as when I struggled to reassemble a shotgun that should have been easy but I just couldn't get it to work as it should). But even at the local big box stores, I find that most (but not all) of the clerks are at least fairly well versed in the guns that they are selling. The greatest ignorance that I have seen is from customers, especially customers who are "helping" newbies buy their first gun. Hearing some blowhard telling his petite ladyfriend that what she needs for home defense is that good looking 44magnum in the display case, or someone advising a totally ignorant friend that a 22 tiny semi auto is just as effective as that big heavy 9mm or 45acp. I have actually interjected myself into some of these conversations and sometimes have been told to mind my own business, but I could not just stand there and see someone new to guns be so poorly educated by his or her so-called expert friend.
 
The last wadcutters I bought, and still have some, were from the training instructor who handles carry permit classes.

It is nice when the guy at the gun counter owns a farm, has hunted since childhood, served in the military, served as match director at the gun club, chats with local police, attorneys and prosecutors on how local gunlaws are actually enforced, and has experience as a police equipment supplier for local law enforcement. It is also rare.

You're lucky if a gun counter clerk can distiguish between "bullets" and "cartridges" just as you may be lucky to find a stockclerk at building supply who has actually had construction or home improvement experience.
 
Anybody ever actually sit down and try to figure out exactly how many different kinds if ammunition there are? Brands, calibers, bullet types, and specific loadings?

How about all the different kinds of firearms? How many companies, models, ranges of calibers and barrel lengths, types of magazines, different stock options?

And then there's the whole after-market stuff, too, not to mention customization options.

And then there's the vast field of ballistics...which, by the way, involves quite a bit more than just how fast a given bullet travels or how deeply it will penetrate ballistics gel.

I dare say there are darn few of us that are so knowledgable as to be able to actually declare themselves bona fide experts in all these areas, much less even a single one.

A "gun shop" is just that...a store whose main point of business is to sell guns and related products. It's not a gunsmith shop, though they may have a gunsmith or two working there. And even the gunsmiths will have their own field of expertise.

Yeah, it's well and good to say that you expect a gun salesman to have a "working knowledge" of what they sell...but what actually constitutes this "working knowledge"? That is subjective.

A car salesman who can drive a car has a "working knowledge" of cars...but that doesn't mean he's a certified mechanic, that he knows the HP and torque specs on all the engine options, that he knows how to change the oil, or that he's a weekend race car driver at the local track.


Yeah, there are some pretty dumb people behind the counter, some of which have that dreaded know-it-all attitude. There are some pretty dumb people in front of the counter, too, with that same attitude.


How many of us, when considering a major purchase, do a bit if research BEFORE actually making that major purchase? Seems to me that this is the way smart people go about business.

Ever buy a house just off the sales pitch of the realtor? Or do you have inspectors look things over, see what the local housing market is like, check out your own finance options, visit the neighborhood, walk through the house, do your own inspections? You expect the realtor agent to be an expert in foundations, roofing, plaster and lath, drywall, electrical wiring, etc?

When you buy a car from a used car salesman, do you expect him to know whether the car your looking at has a two bolt or four bolt main? Gear ratios? What super-whizbang, aftermarket, monster HP booster is going to suit your track speed needs?

At a car dealership, do you talk to the sales department or the service department when you need repairs?


And even if you do expect all these things...everybody had to start their knowledge somewhere...even the clerk behind the counter.


The clerk in a gun store is there to sell guns. His/her knowledge may vary on the subject, but that's it. Granted, basic things like inventory and locations of their stocked product are part of that. But selling the product is their purpose. There is no guarantee that the salesman is going to be an "expert" on all the details you may be looking for. Seek that information out through whatever other channels you need.
 
Continuing from my last posting, another way of looking at this issue:

The clerk that starts behind the counter and DOES become a bona fide "expert" in one or more of these fields over the years?

Strangely, he's no longer behind the gun shop counter as a lower-wage earning clerk any more.

Which probably means we can now complain about how much he charges for his services as a gunsmith or something...
 
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