Todd Orr Bear Attack Update: Why he didn't shoot...

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OC-Trainer

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A few weeks ago, there was a thread on the topic of handguns for bear attack defense. Naturally this topic caused a spirited debate (as these types of thread usually do), especially when bear spray is inserted into the conversation. I joined this conversation to help clear up the usual misconceptions that predictably arise whenever this hot button issue comes up. Midway through the thread, the Todd Orr bear attack occurred and made the news. You can pick up the conversation here:

Page 6, post #112
http://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/you-worry-about-bears-read-this.809627/page-6
Click to expand...

In that thread I mentioned that I was following this case very closely for any additional facts and updates about this incident, since there were so many questions that arose. Well, here is the update and it is straight from the horse's mouth; by Todd Orr himself. For those who participated in that thread and for anyone interested, here are his responses to the two most obvious questions.

Common question… Why didn’t you shoot the bear?

Answer…
1. I am a hunter and an outdoorsman and I do not shoot a bear just to kill it.
2. It is illegal to shoot a Grizzly bear unless you can prove you were defending your life.
3. I certainly wouldn’t care to shoot a sow with young, defenseless cubs that would likely not survive the winter without their mother, unless necessary to protect my life.
4. Bear spray has been proven to be more effective than a pistol at stopping a bear charge.
5. The quickness of the charge and uncommon behavior did not trigger the thought of using the gun before the bear spray.
6. Shooting a Grizzly charging at up to 40mph with a pistol and with accuracy is nearly impossible.
7. I carried a large, heavy, scoped handgun made for hunting and not an easy quick-draw, self defense type pistol.
8. Shooting a charging bear at close range while aiming through a handgun scope is nearly impossible.

Details:

When I first saw the Grizzly and her two cubs of the year, they were approximately 70-80 yards away, and ran immediately into the timber upon seeing me. I felt quite comfortable that the situation was over at that time, due to my experience with other bears and known typical behavior of a sow with cubs. She would likely continue west, putting distance between us. I planned to continue up the mountain moving eastward and away from her.

But suddenly she appeared without the cubs and about 20 yards closer to my left and was at a full charge from the trees. I pulled my bear spray out at that time, yelled a number of times so she was aware I was human, and slowly backed away.

Again it would be common behavior for a sow to retreat to her cubs, stop and smell for my scent, woof, snap her jaws, or change direction and run past me. Attacks are very rare.

A Grizzly can run up to 40mph. When I saw her charge from the trees, she was closer than before, so approximately 50-60 yards. At full speed, she could be on me in as little as just 3 seconds.

Bear spray has proven to be more affective than a pistol at stopping a charge, so my first instinct was to pull the bear spray. Unfortunately, she did not behave as 99% of bears in that situation do, and she continued her full charge attack. So I had about 3 seconds to notice the charge, pull bear spray from its holster, remove the safety clip, point and assess the situation.

No time for plan B and pull a heavy, long barreled and scoped hunting pistol from a shoulder holster, cock the hammer, locate her within the scope and somehow expect accurate hits on a charging bear.

The thought never crossed my mind to even make that attempt because I knew there just was no time to do so.

I used bear spray when I thought she was at about the max distance my spray would reach, and kept the trigger down until she burst through the fog and was literally on me. At that time I went to the ground and was protecting the back of my neck a face from the claws and teeth.

At no time during that first attack, did I feel comfortable exposing my neck or face or losing the position I was in, in order to attempt to pull the pistol, turn to face the attack and shoot. In my opinion, it would have certainly invited a frontal assault on my face throat and soft stomach area. Even reaching for the pistol would have exposed the back of my neck and spine, or reduced the stability of my position and possible allowed the bear to roll me over and gain a frontal assault.

During the entire attack, I used every ounce of strength and determination I had to keep my face down, hands and forearms protecting the back of my neck, elbows locked down protecting the sides of my face, and knees and legs tucked under me to lock along my elbows and protect from as many angles as possible with minimal exposure of my body. Only one bite on my right side along the ribs and just above my hip, rolled me to the side for a split second where I viewed the side of the bears face, but I was instantly back in my almost a “ball” position before she could get to me.

Then the first attack was over and she was gone…

Within a few seconds, I was on my feet and immediately headed down the trail, in the opposite direction of where I had last seen her cubs and where she charged from. I wanted nothing more than to put distance between us. I jogged for a few hundred yards and then alternated between a fast hike and a jog as the terrain would allow.

For some reason I really can’t explain, that was the only morning in my life that I had grabbed a second can of bear spray and hooked to my backpack before leaving the truck.

As a hiked, I shoved the 2/3 empty can into my pants pocket and grabbed the second full can to carry in my hand. I think it just made me feel better even though I was quite sure the bear was now headed in the opposite direction with her cubs and I would never cross paths with her again.

Five minutes later as I neared the first stream crossing, the second attack occurred. I was regularly glancing over my shoulder as I hiked and jogged, but I had no warning of the second attack. Likely a combination of the noise from the adjacent stream and the reduced hearing in my right ear didn’t help the situation. I heard something, turned and she was on me.

I don’t really remember if I fell to the ground or was knocked to the ground, or maybe a combination of the two. There was zero time to use bear spray or a pistol. I hit the ground on my face and immediately went to the defensive position to protect myself from the attack and biting, which was more intense than the first time. Her bites were deeper and would lift me off the ground when she pulled back, and then smashed me back into the dirt and squashed and almost hugged or pinned me. A very eerie and helpless feeling.

Then one more aggressive bite went deep into my forearm and I heard and felt the crunch of bone, tearing of tendons, and damaged nerves. My hand and fingers were completely useless. A claw ripping along the right side of my head also opened a 5″ gash to the skull, filling my eyes with blood. I could do nothing but hold my defensive position as still and quiet as possible and hope she got off my back and left. Again, I never considered turning to use bear spray or the pistol and expose myself to likely further and much more severe injuries.

A minute later, I was left alone and all was quiet. It was then I think, I feared a third attack would be the end of me and I would go out fighting. While still on the ground, I slowly reached under my chest to extract the pistol without making any sound or movement, in case she was still nearby and watching me. The holster and pistol were gone. They had been ripped off me during that second attack.

Desperate for that pistol, I wiped the blood from one eye, looked out under one arm and spotted the holster a few feet away. No bear in sight, I got to my knees pulled the pistol and cocked the hammer. If she had returned, I likely would have been shooting for my life.

Other considerations…

Had I shot and only wounded the bear, would she have been more aggressive and attacked with more ferocity or for a longer period of time, doing more damage?

If she was shot and wounded, would her sounds have called the cubs in to us, now putting me in the position of her not leaving the attack scene?

In conclusion:…

Had I a do-over, I may have drawn both the pistol and the bear spray. However, with the speed at which the situation unfolded, the outcome may have been worse. Had I been lucky enough to get off a shot, it certainly may not have been lethal and could have led to a wounded and irate bear.

Thinking ahead……

I am going to look into a lightweight, short barreled revolver in a 44mag, that will be accessible quickly from my hip. Although one more level of safety in a future incident, it still may not have made any difference in this situation.

Todd Orr

 
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Question: Why didn’t bear spray work?

I noticed numerous comments out there this last couple weeks about the use of bear spray and it’s effectiveness. I am certainly no expert on the matter but would like to give my opinion as it relates to this incident and my past experience.

First and foremost, I am a strong advocate of bear spray! Statistics from recorded bear attacks show that bear spray is more effective than a gun at stopping a bear charge. I used bear spray on a black bear twelve years ago at about 15 feet, and it turned him around in a heartbeat. It works.

It makes sense. An animal gasping for breath because it’s lungs and eyes are filled with a burning pepper spray is more likely to stop its charge or change its behavior than a charging bear full of adrenaline with a stinging, superficial bullet wound.

Animals have a much higher pain tolerance than humans, and a bullet wound may be barely noticeable unless it penetrated a major muscle, bone or internal organ. Even then, an animal could survive with a major injury and continue its attack. A deer shot by a hunter rarely falls dead in its tracks even though a well placed bullet found its mark. Now imagine a heavy boned and muscular Grizzly bear protecting its young and charging at 40mph. Good luck making that well placed shot that pierces the bears brain or spine and stops it in its tracks in two seconds.

Additionally, a bear has a very thick and sloped skull that is not easily penetrated with a bullet even by an excellent marksman. The bullet could very well glance off the bone or lose much of it’s energy and lethal power. A frontal shot on a charging bear is likely to result in a wound to a leg or shoulder, with only the possibility of a chest or head shot, which may not be lethal and likely not going to stop a bear in its tracks. And even more likely, is a miss. Not many people practice shooting at a target full of teeth and claws on a surprise attack at up to 40mph. Think about it…

Now let’s go back to the use of bear spray in my incident.

First, my can of bear spray was a well known brand name of the medium 8oz size and still within the expiration date. It put out a good blast and cloud of spray when I tested it three weeks earlier.
I have had a number of government certified bear identification, safety and bear spray use classes over the years with the Forest Service. I am familiar with the distance bear spray travels and its effectiveness.

In my situation, the bear was at full charge the entire time, and did not stop or hesitate as most bears would, opening a good opportunity for the use of bear spray.

Bear spray puts out a good, concentrated cloud to roughly 25 or 30 feet. So ultimately you would want the cloud in the bears face or just in front of it if charging. I estimated that I sprayed at about that distance or likely further at the initial spray but I can only speculate the exact distance. In any case, the cloud of spray engulfed the bear. I am also aware that bear spay has a slight recoil that will lift you arm a couple of inches and shift your spray pattern upward, so I was sure to keep the pattern low to the ground and at the attacker.

The bear did not stop at the cloud of spray and was through it immediately. Had she taken a deep breath at the right moment while going through the spray, it may have been a different story. Had she slowed, stopped or bluff charged at the cloud for a second, I believe the spray would have had an obvious effect as well. In this situation, I believe her speed and determination just carried her through the spray with a minimal effect that did not deter her. She was focused on getting to me.

So I ask that anyone out there in bear country or around other wild animals, please carry your pepper spray. Don’t be discouraged or consider it unnecessary just because it didn’t work for me that day. My situation was very unique. The odds are still highly in your favor that it could save you life in the event of an attack.

If you want to really be prepared, attend a bear identification and safety class and take the opportunity to test an inert can of bear spray so you know what to expect if you had to use one.

Also, I like to give a quick test burst of my bear spray once a year to know it is operating properly. I have heard others say this is a bad idea because it uses up a half second of spray you may need to use on a bear. That is a legitimate concern, so each person should make their own decision on the matter. If you choose to test, make it a very quick burst and be certain to spray in a large, open space outdoors, and away from people or pets. Common sense should tell you not to spray into the wind. After the quick test spray, immediately move away from the area and wash your hands.

Todd Orr

 
That is a scary story. I hope he is doing well in his recovery. Nobody would have the right to second guess any of his actions. If I was in a similar situation, I would more than likely have departed this world. Thanks for sharing.
 
oc-trainer,

thanks for the link to todd's website. i just spent a couple hours there and recommend all to read about the incident and, especially, to listen to the audio of todd and his cousin discussing the attack.

i think it very important to get information from a first-hand source when discussing any topic. so, in my opinion, mr. orr did everything right. he is still doing the right thing by sharing his saga with the world. kudos to you , mr. orr.

murf
 
dh1633pm said:
That is a scary story. I hope he is doing well in his recovery. Nobody would have the right to second guess any of his actions. If I was in a similar situation, I would more than likely have departed this world. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

You are so right, even though it is so easy to second guess on this horrific scenario.. But I was not in his shoes, and hope to never be, whether it's a bear, a man, or anything else attacking, where my life could be over in a matter.of seconds.

Added thanks to the OP for sharing this remarkable, unforgettable story.
 
I appreciate the explanation, but not the rationalization.

Answer…
1. I am a hunter and an outdoorsman and I do not shoot a bear just to kill it.
No, you shoot to protect your life.See #2

2. It is illegal to shoot a Grizzly bear unless you can prove you were defending your life.
That is exactly what you needed to be doing - protecting your life. Another case of being more worried about potential legal consequences of one's actions instead of being worried about protecting one's own life.

3. I certainly wouldn’t care to shoot a sow with young, defenseless cubs that would likely not survive the winter without their mother, unless necessary to protect my life.
See #2

4. Bear spray has been proven to be more effective than a pistol at stopping a bear charge.
I am not familiar with said proof. I do know the study where bear spray was found to be effective in stopping "aggressive behavior" but not necessarily charges. The failure of 'guns' (not pistols) in the study was one of deployment time more than anything else, particularly with slung rifles.

5. The quickness of the charge and uncommon behavior did not trigger the thought of using the gun before the bear spray.
Hmmm.

6. Shooting a Grizzly charging at up to 40mph with a pistol and with accuracy is nearly impossible.
Given that the grizzly is charging toward you (assuming it was actually going full speed), the shot isn't as difficult. Speed is much less of an accuracy concern for a target running right at you since the target perspective doesn't change nearly so much as one moving laterally.

7. I carried a large, heavy, scoped handgun made for hunting and not an easy quick-draw, self defense type pistol.
Significant mistake. So he went on a hike, not hunting, carrying a hunting pistol not useful for self defense against bears in grizzly country.

8. Shooting a charging bear at close range while aiming through a handgun scope is nearly impossible.
No point shooting capability either?

Additionally, a bear has a very thick and sloped skull that is not easily penetrated with a bullet even by an excellent marksman.

Bear skulls are not particularly thick or difficult to penetrate. Most of the bear skull is much thinner than a human skull. Yes, they are sloped. Most animal skulls are. The real problem here is that the skull is much smaller than the "head" as perceived under all the hair and soft tissue.

Not many people practice shooting at a target full of teeth and claws on a surprise attack at up to 40mph. Think about it…
True, but the teeth and claws aspect is probably not fully relevant here. He had the frame of mind to draw and use pepper spray against a target full of teeth and claws and so he most certainly could have had the frame of mind to draw a pistol. Most people just don't plain practice for any sort of attack, assuming they brought a gun they could have even used. People in bear country should be prepared for such attacks. Think about it.

He didn't carry a gun for defense. The gun wasn't set up for defense. He didn't have quick access for defense. He didn't practice with it for defense. The gun was never a real consideration for defense. That would appear to be the real reason he didn't use his gun.

I found this in Field and Stream and found it interesting...

Draw Your Weapon
At 50 to 70 yards, a surprised bear may show aggression. Draw your pepper spray and remove the trigger guard. Talk in low tones, avoid eye contact, and back slowly away. If the bear follows, drop your pack to distract it. Climb a tree if possible.


Spray and Pray
If the bear persists, give it a 1-second burst of spray at 40 feet. If the bear gets closer or charges, spray another 1-second burst at 15 feet. At 8 feet, empty the canister into the bear's face.
https://books.google.com/books?id=C...ty the canister into the bear's face.&f=false

Well, at 40 mph, a 1 second burst at 40 feet will mean the bear is on you about 1/3 of a second before you have finished that 1 second burst.


 
He stated he used it with success before:
I used bear spray on a black bear twelve years ago at about 15 feet, and it turned him around in a heartbeat. It works.
Click to expand...

He has also been trained in its use and was aware of the stats on recorded uses:
I have had a number of government certified bear identification, safety and bear spray use classes over the years with the Forest Service. I am familiar with the distance bear spray travels and its effectiveness.
Click to expand...

That said, OC droplets are just like any other projectile. If they don't hit the mark (in this case the mucosa of the bear) then it isn't going to work.
 
It seems from the story that he stood in place while "firing" the bear spray and waited for it to "burst through the fog". Makes one wonder if things might have gone differently had he sidestepped while spraying during the first charge and hadn't been where the bear was expecting him to be when it "burst through the fog".
 
Double Naught Spy said:
I appreciate the explanation, but not the rationalization.

Answer…
1. I am a hunter and an outdoorsman and I do not shoot a bear just to kill it.
No, you shoot to protect your life.See #2

2. It is illegal to shoot a Grizzly bear unless you can prove you were defending your life.
That is exactly what you needed to be doing - protecting your life. Another case of being more worried about potential legal consequences of one's actions instead of being worried about protecting one's own life.

3. I certainly wouldn’t care to shoot a sow with young, defenseless cubs that would likely not survive the winter without their mother, unless necessary to protect my life.
See #2

4. Bear spray has been proven to be more effective than a pistol at stopping a bear charge.
I am not familiar with said proof. I do know the study where bear spray was found to be effective in stopping "aggressive behavior" but not necessarily charges. The failure of 'guns' (not pistols) in the study was one of deployment time more than anything else, particularly with slung rifles.

5. The quickness of the charge and uncommon behavior did not trigger the thought of using the gun before the bear spray.
Hmmm.

6. Shooting a Grizzly charging at up to 40mph with a pistol and with accuracy is nearly impossible.
Given that the grizzly is charging toward you (assuming it was actually going full speed), the shot isn't as difficult. Speed is much less of an accuracy concern for a target running right at you since the target perspective doesn't change nearly so much as one moving laterally.

7. I carried a large, heavy, scoped handgun made for hunting and not an easy quick-draw, self defense type pistol.
Significant mistake. So he went on a hike, not hunting, carrying a hunting pistol not useful for self defense against bears in grizzly country.

8. Shooting a charging bear at close range while aiming through a handgun scope is nearly impossible.
No point shooting capability either?

Additionally, a bear has a very thick and sloped skull that is not easily penetrated with a bullet even by an excellent marksman.

Bear skulls are not particularly thick or difficult to penetrate. Most of the bear skull is much thinner than a human skull. Yes, they are sloped. Most animal skulls are. The real problem here is that the skull is much smaller than the "head" as perceived under all the hair and soft tissue.

Not many people practice shooting at a target full of teeth and claws on a surprise attack at up to 40mph. Think about it…
True, but the teeth and claws aspect is probably not fully relevant here. He had the frame of mind to draw and use pepper spray against a target full of teeth and claws and so he most certainly could have had the frame of mind to draw a pistol. Most people just don't plain practice for any sort of attack, assuming they brought a gun they could have even used. People in bear country should be prepared for such attacks. Think about it.

He didn't carry a gun for defense. The gun wasn't set up for defense. He didn't have quick access for defense. He didn't practice with it for defense. The gun was never a real consideration for defense. That would appear to be the real reason he didn't use his gun.

I found this in Field and Stream and found it interesting...

Draw Your Weapon
At 50 to 70 yards, a surprised bear may show aggression. Draw your pepper spray and remove the trigger guard. Talk in low tones, avoid eye contact, and back slowly away. If the bear follows, drop your pack to distract it. Climb a tree if possible.


Spray and Pray
If the bear persists, give it a 1-second burst of spray at 40 feet. If the bear gets closer or charges, spray another 1-second burst at 15 feet. At 8 feet, empty the canister into the bear's face.
https://books.google.com/books?id=CoEHnQGkmccC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=If+the+bear+persists,+give+it+a+1-second+burst+of+spray+at+40+feet.+If+the+bear+gets+closer+or+charges,+spray+another+1-second+burst+at+15+feet.+At+8+feet,+empty+the+canister+into+the+bear's+face.&source=bl&ots=-xNxXLA-OF&sig=nD77SZJLvSOFr7pnLG5mOpv0TcI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcw4uQj_zPAhVIZCYKHR7OC0IQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=If the bear persists, give it a 1-second burst of spray at 40 feet. If the bear gets closer or charges, spray another 1-second burst at 15 feet. At 8 feet, empty the canister into the bear's face.&f=false

Well, at 40 mph, a 1 second burst at 40 feet will mean the bear is on you about 1/3 of a second before you have finished that 1 second burst.

Click to expand...

With due respect.... your answers/rationalization is like Wednesday evening quarterbacking.

The topic was about the thinking of the guy that actually experienced a bear attack and why he did or didn't do things.
 
JohnKSa said:
It seems from the story that he stood in place while "firing" the bear spray and waited for it to "burst through the fog". Makes one wonder if things might have gone differently had he sidestepped while spraying during the first charge and hadn't been where the bear was expecting him to be when it "burst through the fog".
Click to expand...

You are right, John. I don't want to Monday morning quarterback this guy either, but the general rule when firing OC spray (against 2 or 4 legged predators) is to spray and get off the X.

"Fight or flight syndrome" is a really incredible phenomenon. The first part is almost always left out - the freeze response - which is what I suspect must have happened. He is human and I am not faulting him in the slightest.
 
danez71 said:
With due respect.... your answers/rationalization is like Wednesday evening quarterbacking.

The topic was about the thinking of the guy that actually experienced a bear attack and why he did or didn't do things.
Click to expand...

So on a 'discussion forum,' no discussion is allowed? Funny how analysis of information after the fact is often referred to as Monday/Wednesday quarterbacking. It doesn't matter what you call it, LOL, but since the topic is about the "thinking of the guy" what you failed to take away was that I found his description of his thinking to be overly rationalized to the point of rendering himself incapable of acting with a firearm and that the firearm he carried was never going to be used for defense. Think of those poor "defenseless cubs!"

Regardless of the rationalizations (and I highly doubt he was worried about the welfare of the cubs when the sow was charging down on him), he didn't bring a gun he could use for defense, hadn't become skilled in its use for defense, and wasn't about to use it in his own defense.

The guy survived and that is amazing, but if we can't analyze what went on and figure out mistakes that were made, learn from the event, what is the point of having it in a discussion forum?
 
this incident has got me to thinking about how to set up a training situation to simulate an attack using a moving target directly towards me. I practice a lot on my own so often no second person to pull a string and target at me. Need something that is portable. Was thinking of trying to use an retractable electrical cord reel as a device to move a low target at me. Has anyone made such a setup or have any ideas?

 
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Gunsite has (or had) a target robot that they used to simulate a charging opponent.
 
@typhun

Have you seen this? It is the only one that I know of. Look past the marketing and just focus on the speed simulation. Not perfect, but seems to be the best one to date.


 
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Double Naught Spy said:
I appreciate the explanation, but not the rationalization.

Answer…
1. I am a hunter and an outdoorsman and I do not shoot a bear just to kill it.
No, you shoot to protect your life.See #2

2. It is illegal to shoot a Grizzly bear unless you can prove you were defending your life.
That is exactly what you needed to be doing - protecting your life. Another case of being more worried about potential legal consequences of one's actions instead of being worried about protecting one's own life.

3. I certainly wouldn’t care to shoot a sow with young, defenseless cubs that would likely not survive the winter without their mother, unless necessary to protect my life.
See #2

4. Bear spray has been proven to be more effective than a pistol at stopping a bear charge.
I am not familiar with said proof. I do know the study where bear spray was found to be effective in stopping "aggressive behavior" but not necessarily charges. The failure of 'guns' (not pistols) in the study was one of deployment time more than anything else, particularly with slung rifles.

5. The quickness of the charge and uncommon behavior did not trigger the thought of using the gun before the bear spray.
Hmmm.

6. Shooting a Grizzly charging at up to 40mph with a pistol and with accuracy is nearly impossible.
Given that the grizzly is charging toward you (assuming it was actually going full speed), the shot isn't as difficult. Speed is much less of an accuracy concern for a target running right at you since the target perspective doesn't change nearly so much as one moving laterally.

7. I carried a large, heavy, scoped handgun made for hunting and not an easy quick-draw, self defense type pistol.
Significant mistake. So he went on a hike, not hunting, carrying a hunting pistol not useful for self defense against bears in grizzly country.

8. Shooting a charging bear at close range while aiming through a handgun scope is nearly impossible.
No point shooting capability either?

Additionally, a bear has a very thick and sloped skull that is not easily penetrated with a bullet even by an excellent marksman.

Bear skulls are not particularly thick or difficult to penetrate. Most of the bear skull is much thinner than a human skull. Yes, they are sloped. Most animal skulls are. The real problem here is that the skull is much smaller than the "head" as perceived under all the hair and soft tissue.

Not many people practice shooting at a target full of teeth and claws on a surprise attack at up to 40mph. Think about it…
True, but the teeth and claws aspect is probably not fully relevant here. He had the frame of mind to draw and use pepper spray against a target full of teeth and claws and so he most certainly could have had the frame of mind to draw a pistol. Most people just don't plain practice for any sort of attack, assuming they brought a gun they could have even used. People in bear country should be prepared for such attacks. Think about it.

He didn't carry a gun for defense. The gun wasn't set up for defense. He didn't have quick access for defense. He didn't practice with it for defense. The gun was never a real consideration for defense. That would appear to be the real reason he didn't use his gun.

I found this in Field and Stream and found it interesting...

Draw Your Weapon
At 50 to 70 yards, a surprised bear may show aggression. Draw your pepper spray and remove the trigger guard. Talk in low tones, avoid eye contact, and back slowly away. If the bear follows, drop your pack to distract it. Climb a tree if possible.


Spray and Pray
If the bear persists, give it a 1-second burst of spray at 40 feet. If the bear gets closer or charges, spray another 1-second burst at 15 feet. At 8 feet, empty the canister into the bear's face.
https://books.google.com/books?id=CoEHnQGkmccC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=If+the+bear+persists,+give+it+a+1-second+burst+of+spray+at+40+feet.+If+the+bear+gets+closer+or+charges,+spray+another+1-second+burst+at+15+feet.+At+8+feet,+empty+the+canister+into+the+bear's+face.&source=bl&ots=-xNxXLA-OF&sig=nD77SZJLvSOFr7pnLG5mOpv0TcI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcw4uQj_zPAhVIZCYKHR7OC0IQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=If the bear persists, give it a 1-second burst of spray at 40 feet. If the bear gets closer or charges, spray another 1-second burst at 15 feet. At 8 feet, empty the canister into the bear's face.&f=false

Well, at 40 mph, a 1 second burst at 40 feet will mean the bear is on you about 1/3 of a second before you have finished that 1 second burst.
Click to expand...

1000 percent agree DNS. The guy made several mistakes. First being his choice of weapons. Scoped handgun is a hunting gun, not a defensive one. But then I suspect he was only hunting with his pistol, and thus on the backpack, and his only real defense was Bear Spray. That defense failed him.

And folks, if I am defending my life, I will kill whatever is attacking me and THEN worry about what the cops say.... Can it be any other way with you guys here?

Deaf
 
he was carrying a 1911 type semi in 10mm caliber with a leupold scope. this is definitely not a self defense weapon. i'm sure he knew that and instinctively went for the spray.

many things here opened my eyes. the bear weighed (by mr. orr's estimate) between 250 and 300 pounds. the bear ran through the cloud of bear spray. the spray did not affect the bear, it attacked again ten minutes later. playing dead worked here...twice! bears are unpredictable, they don't follow our perceptions, statistics, or rules.

a lot of empirical evidence here. a lot to learn about dealing with bears.

murf
 
The National Park Service tried many times to ban the carrying of handguns in the back country. After many deaths and injuries they have been over ruled. Wyoming G&F now encourages Bow hunters to carry handguns while hunting in Grizz country.
These Chemical companies continue to push for no firearms. Use the Non Lethal Bear spray only. Why? Just carry what ever you feel comfortable with. :)
 
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he fumbled with his bear spray while his wife was being attacked
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