Say it ain't so: Marine Raiders Throw .45 Overboard

Double Naught Spy said:

Yeah, but being pretty and classy is pretty irrelevant on the battlefield. It is a tool choice. Nobody cares if the entrenching tool is pretty, LOL.

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Well, gosh ... can't argue that ... my last deployments, we didn't even have to shave (somewhere there are hundreds of drill sergeants and first sergeants rolling over in their graves).

Tirod said: ↑

"If you think about the mission of those units DOD wide they are often performing duties out of uniform. Carrying a 1911 is like a big red flag saying "Oh, look, an operator over here!"

Glocks are ubiquitous world wide and much less politically significant. They fit with the mission profile, and they also work, too.

The only people actually disturbed by it are those who have to prop up their ego by what brand gun they adopt as their Tribal logo. Handguns are not a primary weapon in combat."

I had to ponder this one ... carrying a 1911 like a "big red flag" calling attention to an "operator?" I've also never noticed anyone propping up their ego by what brand gun they've adopted as their "tribal logo," though that sounds quite witty and pithy ... As far as fandom, goes, I've always thought the Glock fanboys were the most over-the-top while 1911 aficionados are generally more experienced shooters and more grounded in reality. Finally, one suspects that most of us understand that handguns aren't a primary weapon in combat. That said, personally, I've always wanted a handgun with me that I shoot well; alas, my deformed hands just don't seem to let me shoot Glocks well (not for lack of trying, either) but I'm an ace with a 1911.

Tirod said:

* * * Carrying a 1911 is like a big red flag saying "Oh, look, an operator over here!"

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Big red B.S. flag thrown on that one.

Name five times - or even one time - when carrying a MEUSOC 1911 got someone shot at because a Jihadi a-hole thought: "Wow, that's a big stud of an Infidel right there carrying a big ol' Colt .45. Must be a Marine 'operator.' I better take him out now to save my Jihadi bros from getting gunned down!"

C'mon, dudenal, time to get serious.

Jonesy814 said:

If you actually read the article you will see that it is only some of the special ops units that are switching, not the entire Marine Corps.

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If you actually read the thread title you will see exactly what the OP wrote....."...Marine Raiders Throw .45 Overboard"

Old Dog said:

Well, it's pretty apparent all the Glock guys are happy and feel as though their chosen platform is finally validated.....

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Validated? Seriously? The most popular law enforcement handgun in America over the last twenty years is finally "validated"?

I guess the 1911 being INVALIDATED is causing much handwringing and hurt feelings.

dogtown tom said:

Validated? Seriously? The most popular law enforcement handgun in America over the last twenty years is finally "validated"?

I guess the 1911 being INVALIDATED is causing much handwringing and hurt feelings.

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Ah, no.

Just an alert observer who's noticed that every single firearms forum and discussion group has pretty much blown up regurgitating the awesome news since the last couple groups of specwar folks went out and bought some Glocks ... I tried to have some fun with this thread, but some of y'all take this stuff a bit seriously ...

<skeptical geezer> "I always knew those grips were too Hollywood for leathernecks!"

Carrying a 1911 is like a big red flag saying "Oh, look, an operator over here!"

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Not anymore, right? Marines were the last ones using it, unless I'm mistaken?

Handguns are not a primary weapon in combat.

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I can't wait until the next competition for the replacement bayonet heats up; that's gonna be the best, lol

If you actually read the article you will see that it is only some of the special ops units that are switching, not the entire Marine Corps.

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Unless I'm mistaken, that spec ops unit was the one that boosted a bunch of egos by choosing the 1911 a couple years ago; the gun should be fully out of service after this latest move, right, or is some poor unit still using WWII/'Nam-era rebuilds?

Time to CMP those 1911s!!!!! Yeah, I know...

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What's funny, is you may be right. At least, with a non-Hillary administration. Our old frenemy John McCain was the primary driver in shredding the latest effort to get 1911s out through the CMP, and he just so happens to also be one of the loudest mouths when it comes to cutting military waste (I know, massively selective vision there). Now, ancient clapped out 'weapons of war' are one thing, but the tax payer literally just paid for this latest batch of guns, and at only two years old, you *know* a very large number of them are still fresh in the grease. Totally indefensible to just toss the things, vs. selling them at the market value of the same exact guns already available to civilians. If anything they need to be put into cold storage for a few decades "just in case," just so the acquisitions guys don't look quite so much like complete toolbags.

TCB

I'm a SAA and a 1911 guy. I have about a half a dozen of each. I've given all my Glockl owning friends a hard time about not owning a "real" handgun. All in jest of course. Broke down and bought a G 30S. Wow! It just shoots. Period! Liked it so much I got a 19. Wow again! This thing just shoots as well. Both are super reliable, easy to conceal and will no doubt get the job done. Do they replace my usual 1911 carry gun? Not all the time but sometimes they are easier to carry and I go with them. I still love my SA's and the 1911's. They are awesome to shoot at the range but I have learned that the Glocks are great guns as well. The only sort of negative thing I can think of to say about the Glocks is that they are so reliable and accurate that they are almost boring to shoot!

why the 19 and not the 17?

good decision made. army should have picked the glock too....years ago.

having said this i own a half dozen 1911s, 3 glocks, and a couple 92s. all great guns but the glock is the best choice. only thing better is an hk usp or steyr m9.

9mmepiphany said:

For most uses, there is very little that the G17 offers over the G19

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good point. thank you Sir.

I held a commercial M45, and I wasn't that impressed with it given its price tag. I feel like my TRP is better built. Just my opinion.

Glocks are a fine, good honest tool.

1911's are history you can shoot just like an M1. That has to account for something.

Tirod said:

Handguns are not a primary weapon in combat.

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I can only say from my limited experience thus my MOS of the time period the 1911A1 was the primary weapon. I did employ it against an adversary. From that experience the lesson learned was that the pistol is a nice supplement to the rifle as generations in their wars before mine had learned also.

The current generation of millennial aged 'operators' is too lazy to work a safety.



(Yeah, it's a joke.)



(And the kernel of truth behind the joke makes it hilarious)

bannockburn said:

barnbwt

Or else they had some appropriations money to spend before it went away. Use it or lose it.

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The Marine Corps with extra money? LOL!!

"The Marine Corps with extra money? LOL!!"
Not any more --now you know why

bannockburn said:

barnbwt

Or else they had some appropriations money to spend before it went away. Use it or lose it.

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Now this is a man with good experience

jhb said:

why the 19 and not the 17?

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Because the handgun in a military context is not a primary weapon like it is in law enforcement.

Rubber_Duck said:

Because the handgun in a military context is not a primary weapon like it is in law enforcement.

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Law Enforcement doesn't really use the original Glock (G17) either. They were the primary driver of the G19 market - a smaller, lighter gun with equivalent performance at the ranges they deploy their pistols. Even my G20 is shorter, as I recall.

Well, it's about time! The .45 ball ammo may or may not have better stopping power than 9mm ball ammo, but the Colt autos are relics. In government tests they came in dead last as far as reliability and accuracy were concerned. If I had a son in the service, I certainly wouldn't want him carrying a Colt sidearm under any circumstances.

Gaidheal said:

Law Enforcement doesn't really use the original Glock (G17) either. They were the primary driver of the G19 market - a smaller, lighter gun with equivalent performance at the ranges they deploy their pistols. Even my G20 is shorter, as I recall.

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I'm unsure what's being said here.
-Agree. I'm unaware of anybody using a Glock 17 "gen1" for work.

I disagree if you believe Law Enforcement (in the USA) isn't using the G17Gen3 or Gen4, but instead, has gone to the G19. Both models (and other Glock models) are being used in 9mm. I first used a personal, then an issued G22gen2; then a G22gen3; and now a G17Gen4.

My department issues the G17Gen4 for everyone, and might issue a G26Gen4 for those who need something more concealable. Another smaller agency (maybe 40 carrying weapons) with which we work closely, first chose the G23gen3, but went to the G19gen4, which is merely some decision-maker's personal choice.

-The G20 is listed as having a 4.6" barrel while the G17 has a 4.48" barrel. If the comparison is to the 5" 1911, then yes, those Glocks have shorter barrel lengths. If the comparison is to the G17, then no, the G20 barrel is longer, but only by 0.12".

L-2 said:

I'm unsure what's being said here.
-Agree. I'm unaware of anybody using a Glock 17 "gen1" for work.

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The trend I was aware of has been to the G19, but if that's not really the picture, then fair enough. Here in Texas, what I see, certainly locally, anyway (Hill Country, South Texas) is Glock 19, for those departments using Glocks (which seems to be most).

I disagree if you believe Law Enforcement (in the USA) isn't using the G17Gen3 or Gen4, but instead, has gone to the G19. Both models (and other Glock models) are being used in 9mm. I first used a personal, then an issued G22gen2; then a G22gen3; and now a G17Gen4.

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Good to know, I was speaking from what I have seen and what seemed to be the trend, discussed previously on here, too. It's certainly the case that at least part of Glock's motivation for producing that model was requests from LEOs for a smaller, lighter weapon with similar capacity and performance.

My department issues the G17Gen4 for everyone, and might issue a G26Gen4 for those who need something more concealable. Another smaller agency (maybe 40 carrying weapons) with which we work closely, first chose the G23gen3, but went to the G19gen4, which is merely some decision-maker's personal choice.

-The G20 is listed as having a 4.6" barrel while the G17 has a 4.48" barrel. If the comparison is to the 5" 1911, then yes, those Glocks have shorter barrel lengths. If the comparison is to the G17, then no, the G20 barrel is longer, but only by 0.12".

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I was indeed comparing to the G17, and was wrong. Serves me right for not just looking at Glock's site, and relying on my memory instead.