Trumps first move pro gun: appoint Giuliani

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vaupet said:
Please enlighten me how this is going to help 'our' cause?
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Since you don't live in America, why do you think you are apart of the 2A cause? What makes you think a Trump presidency will affect your European approved privileges?
vaupet said:
Two of the saddest days in American and world history : 9-11 and 11-9 imho
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Uh... you are in no position to tell us Americans what our saddest days in our nation's history should be. Maybe if you lived here, you might know a thing or two about it. A democratic election is not a sad day in American history and compares nothing to the tragedy of thousands murdered on 9/11. You should be ashamed of yourself to ratio the two dates as equally tragic. How dare you.
 
strambo said:
Remember "W" would have signed a new AWB. Check the link, read the names on that list.
http://www.guns.com/2016/11/04/3042029/
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Can't remember what podcast it was, but I heard not long ago:
1. The Democrats put the sunset clause in the previous AWB in order to get some squishy Republicans (and a few Democrats) to go along.
2. They were thinking the long game - the Dems had controlled the House for so long they figured in 10 years (when the sunset clause would kick in) they'd take care of it then.
3. In a delicious bit of irony, passage of the AWB probably had a lot to do with the Dems losing control of the House.

They learned from their mistake - if they ever get another AWB passed, you can bet it won't have a sunset clause!
 
It's too bad that sunset clauses aren't more common in laws. We all have ideas about what this or that policy will do in the real world if enacted, but these projections are usually based on a lot of assumptions about how the world works. And the world is complicated, and hard to reliably predict. I think it would be more sensible and modest to routinely enact new laws with sunset provisions so that a later judgment can be made informed by real world data about whether the law worked as intended or had unintended bad consequences. In fact, if we were writing a constitution from scratch today, I might argue that all laws have to go through a sunset period before they can be re-enacted (or not) on a permanent basis.
 
GAF wrote:
We get the guy we want in office and its still gloom and doom. I don`t get it.
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It's just like the Obama supporters who were gnashing their teeth 48 hours after the election that he hadn't remade the country in the image they expected.

People seem to have forgotten that we elect a President, not a King, and that what the President says during the campaign is a vision of where he hopes to lead the nation. To achieve his vision he must work with the other branches of government and that always involves negotiation and compromise.

Today we wake up to a Presidency that will soon be held by a Republican and with the Republican party soon to be in control of both the House and Senate. Those who find something regarding the 2nd Amendment to fear in that need to re-assess their political affiliation and start looking to form a new political party that will address their concerns.
 
ATLDave wrote:
It's too bad that sunset clauses aren't more common in laws.
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Oh yes, we really need a sunset clause on laws prohibiting murder, assault, rape, etc.

I have to disagree. Laws are enacted to implement and provide a mechanism for the enforcement of public policy. Sound public policy doesn't have an expiration date, so the laws enacted to implement and enforce it don't require one either. With the exception of laws enacted to govern a temporary circumstance, any law that needs a sunset clause should never have been enacted in the first place.
 
Speedo66 said:
.... I'd like to see Colin Powell back in a national office.
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Not me. Anyone who thought the current president would be good for the country - not just the first term, but also the 2nd when it was entirely clear what that guy was about - is NOT of sound judgement, IMO.
 
vaupet said:
In spite of all the NRA promises, his first intentions are to appoint Rudy Giuliani as attorney general, which also leaves Giuliani at the helm in the appointment of Scotus.

Please enlighten me how this is going to help 'our' cause?

Two of the saddest days in American and world history : 9-11 and 11-9 imho
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Nonsense.
 
hdwhit said:
Oh yes, we really need a sunset clause on laws prohibiting murder, assault, rape, etc.
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New laws. We've had those laws for a while, we know how they work. But even if there were a sunset in them, people generally really like having the laws prohibiting those acts, so they'd be re-passed.
 
hdwhit said:
Laws are enacted to implement and provide a mechanism for the enforcement of public policy. Sound public policy doesn't have an expiration date, so the laws enacted to implement and enforce it don't require one either. With the exception of laws enacted to govern a temporary circumstance, any law that needs a sunset clause should never have been enacted in the first place.
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The problem is that knowing what constitutes "sound public policy" in advance is really hard. Many, many, many laws that were thought to be "sound public policy" at the time of their adoption turned out, in practice, to be a fool's errand, or worse. Having a sunset provision on new laws would ensure that new policies get a second look - with some actual track record/data to aid the analysis - to ensure that they are, in fact, "sound public policy."

But this is all rather far afield.
 
GAF said:
This thread is sort of funny. We get the guy we want in office and its still gloom and doom.
I don`t get it. How about stop gnashing teeth and let the guy get his presidential house in order.

You guys are depressing !!!
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Because electing a President is a bit like choosing a wild horse, you may get the better quality horseflesh but it still isn't saddle broke and until it is he does not have your best interests at heart.

(And may my poor deceased grandfather forgive me for comparing an intelligent and loyal creature such as a horse to a politician.)
 
Fortunately the AG doesn't have much to say about gun control.
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<spit take> What?! Education, people. Do we even have to address this as far as import bans, ATF direction on determinations, 'sporting purposes,' sting operations & enforcement goals, and machinegun amnesty? Chrissakes, next I'll hear how the Terror Watchlist gun ban has Due Process because you might be able to appeal after the fact.

his first intentions are to appoint Rudy Giuliani as attorney general, which also leaves Giuliani at the helm in the appointment of Scotus.
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Ugh, I spoke too soon. Giuliani would direct enforcement efforts (and court cases) at the behest of The Don, for the most part, and stamp approvals on DOJ lettergead for a ton of regulations. Jeez, no wonder we were left to choose between Trump and Clinton...

I'm a skeptical SOB, especially with the Trump-flopper, but his little gun-czar-round table thing might be a legitimate counterpoint to Rudy's shenanigans (and there will be Rudy shenanigans, believe it) so I'll adopt a wait and see attitude. Not a good omen that Chris Christie is running the transition & Giulliani is the first appointment, though.

So don't you Trump supporters try to convince anybody it's one. Tell Trump he's putting a big city statist in charge of prosecutions, the kind the legal system uses to screw with gun owners when run by big city statists. He may not care though (being a big city statist and everything)

TCB
 
Because electing a President is a bit like choosing a wild horse, you may get the better quality horseflesh but it still isn't saddle broke and until it is he does not have your best interests at heart.
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The smart strategy would then be to pick a trained, experienced steed with reliable reputation for your Sonoran journey, rather than an elderly free-range stud that's only half-broke. But that's just one little bear's opinion...
 
I see in this universe the winner becomes president the day after the election. The day after that, everyone whines that they didn't get what they want.

Time to get back in the dimension jumper. Bye.
 
Rudy learned his chops as a NYC prosecutor. He's definitely not firearm friendly. For that matter, Trump is a NYC guy himself. I'm far from convinced that they'll be 2A defenders.
 
My hope for all of this is the ability to register transferable MGs and the removal of silencers, SBRs, and SBSs from the NFA. A lot of that can be accomplished by the Trump administration refusing to defend the law in a court challenge just like the Obama administration refused to defend DOMA. I'm not quite sure what the purpose of the fingerprint cards are vs. NICS, so we could speed up the transfer times. I think Trump could quickly revoke ATF rule 41, which would make a lot of people happy. How am I supposed to buy silencers without my wife finding out?
 
A lot of ignorance is on display here, which is the single biggest threat to our republic. If you are fearful of Rudi, Condi should have you wetting your pants. I have yet to see any evidence that Ms Rice has a better understanding of the Constitution than does Mr Trump, which is somewhere around zero.... Keep your head down, your phone calls up, and your powder dry.
 
Steel Horse Rider said:
A lot of ignorance is on display here, which is the single biggest threat to our republic. If you are fearful of Rudi, Condi should have you wetting your pants. I have yet to see any evidence that Ms Rice has a better understanding of the Constitution than does Mr Trump, which is somewhere around zero.... Keep your head down, your phone calls up, and your powder dry.
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You've displayed enough ignorance of your own with your insulting remarks about Rice, Trump and other THR forum members.

I'd say try to stay classy, but that probably isn't possible.
 
skoro said:
Rudy learned his chops as a NYC prosecutor. He's definitely not firearm friendly. For that matter, Trump is a NYC guy himself. I'm far from convinced that they'll be 2A defenders.
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The one reason I think Trump will go pro 2A is that both his sons are hunters and are pro 2A. Family can be great persuaders.
 
I wouldn't worry too much yet., Giuliani will be working for Trump. Lots of cabinet members alter their position to match the wishes of the boss. Giuliani cleaned up NYC. He was tough on guns because he had to be in NYC. Lots of 19th century western lawmen who are idolized today took an even harsher position on gun control in their cities.

He may well do a good job of cleaning up the corruption in the federal government. There are lots of pro gun Republicans sweating today, not just Hillary, that their corruption will be uncovered. If Trump tells Giuliani to leave guns alone he will. Or Trump will fire him.
 
If you are fearful of Rudi, Condi should have you wetting your pants
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Yup, both awful (I'll go out on a limb and guess she was involved in the barrel import ban). The suggestion of Colin Powel was also a laugh riot. The entire Bush clan has always been anti-gun (JEB did right by Florida, but so did Dubya in Texas before going ambivalent-to-somewhat-hostile at the federal level)

Just as there are a ton of ignorant liberals that don't know about all our gun laws, there are a ton of ignorant gunowners unaware of how many laws and regulations get passed by people who say the right things. Trump's terror watch list ban is gun control, yet many of us will cheer for it. It's also likely to pass at this rate with bi-partisan support.
 
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