32 H&R Magnum -- a useful caliber, or obsolete?
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philbo
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Just noticed that Lipsey's is listing a Henry Arms lever action in 327 mag... I've been waiting for just such a rifle to go with my handguns.!
http://www.lipseys.com/itemfinder.aspx?caliber=327+Federal+Magnum
update: Actually listing 4 models, but the 16.5" barrel is enticing
http://www.lipseys.com/itemfinder.aspx?caliber=327+Federal+Magnum
update: Actually listing 4 models, but the 16.5" barrel is enticing
The 16.5" barrel sounds like a sweet shooter that is still handy to pack around. I think I'm going to put all of my gun buying on hold and try to snag one of these when they become available. I've been dabbling with the idea of getting into 45-70 for fun, but I don't hunt and getting beat up by a gun doesn't sound that fun.
The .327 would make for a hard-hitting trail carbine that could really put some stank on the bullet.
Hopefully it's not too picky about feeding the other .32 cartridges.
cowboy77845
Member
Now they come out with one. MY timing always sucks, whether it be stocks or guns. I just ordered a Marlin conversion at twice the price. I have no clue about the quality of a Henry. Would prefer a 92 Winchester type action for this round but the Marlin 94 is fine. When I called my order in to Ranger Point Precision, I was surprised that 45 ACP was their most popular conversion. They must be making money with them or they would not be doing them.
SwampWolf
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One specific reason might be the fact that you can load a compact revolver used for self-defense with six rounds of .327/.32 Magnum as opposed to five rounds of .357 Magnum/.38 Special in most revolvers (the Colt Detective Special/Cobra/Agent revolvers being interesting exceptions to "the rule").
BobWright
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If you like a gun or a caliber that is enough justification to own it. I would not want to justify my 50 years of firearms accumulations. OK then! I am just a hopeless gun lover.
You and me both, Dog Soldier.
Bob Wright
dranrab
Member
Other than Lipsey's ad, my search turned up no additional information on a Henry 327 Federal. Nothing on Henry's site.
Frankly I would expect it to be picky: a lot of 357 mag carbines are picky about 38 spl and that's a relatively minor length variation. Now consider 327 down to 32 ACP.....
cal44mag
Member
Frankly I would expect it to be picky: a lot of 357 mag carbines are picky about 38 spl and that's a relatively minor length variation. Now consider 327 down to 32 ACP.....
I would settle for shooting 327 Federal, 32 H&R magnum, and 32 S&W Long. The 32 S&W (short) is hard to find, fits into the "mouse fart" category, and costs more than 32 long if you can find it.
I agree -- 32 ACP sounds problematic in a lever gun made for 327 Federal.
Hondo 60
Member
About 6 months ago I bought a Henry Big Boy Steel - 45 Colt.
I have to say the quality is as good as any firearm I have
(I have recent & vintage S&W, Colt, Ruger, etc.).
I will buy another Henry, just have to figure out what caliber.
Maybe a 41 Magnum, to go with with my S&W Model 58
It was announced a couple days ago. It's official. I saw a press release somewhere, can't find it now.
cal44mag
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The press release says the Henry is chambered In 327 Federal and 32 h&r magnum -- but doesn't mention 32 long.
Hondo 60
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Smooth as a baby's bottom.
No machine marks, digs, swirls, nothin!
Because I can! Lol.
I reload 32S&W Long for my 32H&R Mag Single six.
Not because of recoil - both are very mild, but just because I can.
cal44mag
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And if you don't reload, 32 s&w long is lower cost.
The .32 H&R Magnum had one purpose - to make a company with a line of obsolete revolvers, no imagination, and no capital look modern and progressive. It failed.
The cartridge itself is not bad, but it had no real reason to exist in the face of literally hundreds of guns in the same power range in .38/9mm caliber. The same is true of the .327; another round with no real reason to exist other than to provide material for a couple of issues of "Bang and Boom" or whichever gunzine needs a page filler this month. (The old .32-20 had the advantage of being available in rifles and matching caliber revolvers.)
Jim
The cartridge itself is not bad, but it had no real reason to exist in the face of literally hundreds of guns in the same power range in .38/9mm caliber. The same is true of the .327; another round with no real reason to exist other than to provide material for a couple of issues of "Bang and Boom" or whichever gunzine needs a page filler this month. (The old .32-20 had the advantage of being available in rifles and matching caliber revolvers.)
Jim
ThomasT
Member
I have three 32 longs and four 32 mag revolvers and a Marlin 32 mag rifle. I like the 32 caliber guns and don't care if they are popular or not or even if some consider them obsolete. For me they are not. I hand load for them so ammo is super easy. I also have a couple of bullet molds and lots of lead. And lead is what I shoot the most. I very seldom ever shoot full power loads. But 100gr bullets to 1000-1100fps from the mags or 850 or so from the longs works for me. Thats why I have no interest in the 327 because the power just isn't needed in my case. But if just getting into 32s a 327 would be considered. Mostly that Ruger single six with a 7.5" barrel.
The 32 mag rifle will get around 1850fps with an 85gr bullet and over 1600fps with a 100gr bullet. You might could push it harder but I see no point in that. I have a 357 and 44 mag lever gun if more is needed. And my Marlin will NOT cycle 32 longs. I have tried. But I do load light lead loads for it. Thats fun. Its just a little pop if the load is light enough. A 76gr lead bullet going 960fps is as quiet as a CB long. Its like a big pellet gun with a lot more punch.
The only Holy Grail gun I ever had was a S&W model 631 like posted one page one. I finally found one I could justify the cost on. After I got it and shot it a bit I decided I liked my Ruger single six's better. My Rugers have 5.5" barrels and adjustable sights. They are the best small game field and trail handguns I own when a bigger bore bear or hog gun isn't needed. And there are no bears in Tx as far as I know. Hogs yes, bears no. I wish there were bears.
The 32 mag rifle will get around 1850fps with an 85gr bullet and over 1600fps with a 100gr bullet. You might could push it harder but I see no point in that. I have a 357 and 44 mag lever gun if more is needed. And my Marlin will NOT cycle 32 longs. I have tried. But I do load light lead loads for it. Thats fun. Its just a little pop if the load is light enough. A 76gr lead bullet going 960fps is as quiet as a CB long. Its like a big pellet gun with a lot more punch.
The only Holy Grail gun I ever had was a S&W model 631 like posted one page one. I finally found one I could justify the cost on. After I got it and shot it a bit I decided I liked my Ruger single six's better. My Rugers have 5.5" barrels and adjustable sights. They are the best small game field and trail handguns I own when a bigger bore bear or hog gun isn't needed. And there are no bears in Tx as far as I know. Hogs yes, bears no. I wish there were bears.
DeadEye9
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I'm a huge .32 H&R fan, and have been for many years. I picked up a
The over-hyped marketing in the early 2000's resurgence of the 32 H&R is what nearly killed it. We were trying to bring it back from the grave, but all of the mis-marketing which claimed it matched the 357mag in Energy (when they meant velocity) really did it a dis-service. It took about 10min for anyone with any shooting experience to figure out it's not as effective as a stopping cartridge as even the 38spcl, despite having greater energy.
Now, does that mean it's not a viable choice? Eh, I often carry a .32 H&R, but I'd never recommend one over a 38spcl. In those very few instances where a shooter can't manage the recoil - HONESTLY SO - of a 38spcl, then the 32 H&R is a better choice than dropping down to a 22 mag or 22 LR by a long shot.
For the reloader, it's really not significantly more cost efficient to load 32's over 38's or 357's, and for factory ammo, there really isn't a savings to speak of.
Now - where does the 32 H&R really shine? Small game hunting! Most folks never bothered to employ their Single Six Vaquerito's as hunting pieces, and of course, the snubby little SP-101's and S&W Airweights don't really fit the bill, but when you transfer over from the defensive application to small game hunting, it's a very viable option. I purchased one of the Single 7 .327FM's, barely eek out any more energy than I had been getting from my .32 H&R mags (over book loads running .327FM pressure, effectively) and have been very happy with it as a bunny slayer, just as I have been for over a decade with many of the .32 H&R Vaqueritos. Lower recoil, smaller frame revolver, flatter trajectory, and more than enough power to reach 100yrds and put a hole through any bunny on the planet. THAT's what I love about the 32 H&R. The only revolvers I've come to favor more than the .32 H&R/.327FM for this purpose are the Taurus .17 HMR Tracker, and of course, the Taurus Raging Hornet in 22 H. Give me a Reeder conversion GP100 in .257 Banshee or .256win mag and I'd have to bump those down the list a ways though...
While I'm not a blued revolver fan, here's one of my favorite pairs of .32 H&R Vaqueritos:
What were you loading that you weren't able to get anymore power from .327 than .32 HR mag? My defense loads I make for my 3" SP101 push a 100gr Speer JHP at 1409fps average from that barrel. From my 5.5" BH I average around 1480fps with the same load. Well over 500 lbs of energy with that load and a great deal more than most any .38 special load on the market, +P or not. Testing in SimTest ordnance gel I'm getting a solid 13.5-15" penetration with expansion in the realm of 80% greater than starting diameter. Definitely closer to .357 mag ballistics then any commercial .38 load. .327 When loaded right is nothing to sneeze at for SD. Even over the counter loads like the Gold Dot and Buffalo Bore stuff get you in the 500lb ft energy realm with 100gr JHPs so you don't HAVE to handload to get good performances. .32 HR mag isn't even close to a max .327 mag load. Most .32 H&R mag loads run an 85gr pull around 1000-1100fps. Still useful for sure but nowhere near a max .327 so I was very shocked to see you say you weren't getting any more power over .32.
ThomasT
Member
With a book load of Hodgdon L'il Gun I get just over 1300fps from a 5.5" barreled Ruger single six and 1250fps from a Ruger SP-101 with a 4" barrel. The original weak 32 mag loads would reach the velocity you listed.
DeadEye9
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I've never loaded .32 H&R so I was just going off a couple factory spec loads I had around, those are nice .32 HR loads. I also use LilGun for my .327 mag loads. In any event I still wouldn't call the increase insignificant; the velocity you get from an 85gr and a 5.5" with .32 H&R i am able to exceed by 100+fps from a 3" barrel or 200fps faster from the same 5.5" BH but with a 100gr pill. I also have some Keith 130gr Hard Casts that I can push to 1300 from my BH. That's hands down .38 special territory any day of the week, at the same time offering 6 rounds vs 5 in most little 17:8"-2" snubs. I'm a semi auto guy for primary carry but snubs have a great place as auxiliary/backup guns in my opinion and the .327 fed is every bit as capable as .38 special. You just get trade offs; less blast and muzzle flash with the .38 but an extra round in the same gun with the .327.
Varminterror
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With the same bullet, over 2400 or H110, I only get 100-150fps difference loading in 327fm instead of .32h&r cases.
Factory ammunition for the two are not loaded to the same pressure standard, but in a revolver tolerant of .327fm pressure, there's no reason to load the .32h&r to its lower pressure standard. Loaded to the same pressure, there really isn't much gap between the two - not enough to make much difference for killing range, nor killing power on their suitable game species.
The .327fm only really dips into .38spcl and .357mag territory for Kinetic Energy. The momentum, Taylor factor, hits factor, etc don't really smell the .38/357.
Factory ammunition for the two are not loaded to the same pressure standard, but in a revolver tolerant of .327fm pressure, there's no reason to load the .32h&r to its lower pressure standard. Loaded to the same pressure, there really isn't much gap between the two - not enough to make much difference for killing range, nor killing power on their suitable game species.
The .327fm only really dips into .38spcl and .357mag territory for Kinetic Energy. The momentum, Taylor factor, hits factor, etc don't really smell the .38/357.
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Was kinda hoping that either the H&R or the Federal would take off in popularity and that someone would put out a lever action rifle in it.
Only thing I'm interested in is a lever for small game. Guess it's not to be.
Neither are obsolete, but they sure aren't exactly popular either.
Only thing I'm interested in is a lever for small game. Guess it's not to be.
Neither are obsolete, but they sure aren't exactly popular either.
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