Help! 44mag w/225gr ftx's

I have not tried the FTX but my Hornady manual says to trim cases at 1.255" for 44 mag.
What problem are you having?

Could be your gun doesn't like that bullet weight or makeup. I can shoot 55gr 223 of any makeup with decent accuracy but 50/52gr shoot like buckshot.

17.5gr is too light according to Hodgdon data. They list a minimum of 19.4gr of H110 and a MAX of 21.5gr H110. If you load H110 too light you'll tend to get erratic performance. What range of charge weights have you tried with H110? Have you tried 2400 yet?

You probably already know that the FTX bullets need 'special' seating in the case. The Hornady manual makes a point of this.

KansasSasquatch said:

17.5gr is too light according to Hodgdon data. They list a minimum of 19.4gr of H110 and a MAX of 21.5gr H110. If you load H110 too light you'll tend to get erratic performance. What range of charge weights have you tried with H110?

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The OP states his best groups were @ 17.5 and hotter loads became more erratic. I too would be interested in how high he went. For many folks, 3'' groups @ 100 yards with a handgun caliber carbine is as good as it ever gets. I can get down to about 2" with mine(both ,357 and .44). If I was @ 1.5" or less, I wouldn't change a thing.

try some imr 4227 if its in the book for that bullet weight. I use it for 44mag carbine 240gr xtp. I cant attest to accuracy because I seem to have flyers but it could just be me. sometimes its clover leaf and some throw a few inches away.

02bigdogs17 said:

Just figured these more aerodynamic ftx's would beat those groups. Maybe I was wrong.

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The 225 FTX is not more aerodynamic than other bullets. Its BC is lower than all of the other Hornady .430" bullets except for the 180 XTP and Lead Cowboy bullets. The 200, 240, and 300 XTP's all have higher BC's.

I'm really surprised you're having trouble getting the 225's to shoot. I've not yet found a revolver or rifle which didn't shoot them very well. The 240 XTP tends to be my gold standard bullet, however. If it doesn't shoot, there's something wrong with the rifle.

What I find interesting is that Hodgdon recommends to not reduce H110/W296 max loads by more than 3%. So going by Hodgdon's max data for the FTX bullet in .44mag, the charge range should be 20.8gr minimum to 21.5gr max. But yet they actually list 19.4gr to 21.5gr, which *suggests* that a 10% reduction is okay with this combination. I don't own a .44mag, yet, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. But if I were in the OP's situation I would surely work up to Hodgdon's listed max, very carefully, and see if I could squeeze a good accurate load out of the combo. More often than not, most people who have extensive experience with H110 agree that it produces the most accurate loads at or near MAX listed charge weights.

*I say suggests because there could always be a typo in the printed or online data*

KansasSasquatch said:

What I find interesting is that Hodgdon recommends to not reduce H110/W296 max loads by more than 3%.

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The FTX bullets are both awesome and annoying at the same time. While hornady's data is for a cut down case, it appears that hodgdon's is for the standard 1.280" trim length. The problem with the FTX bullets with H110 is that you have to throw the DNR more than 3% rule out the window. The cannelure location puts more of the bullet in the case than a similar weight bullet and the bullet itself is longer due to the space taken by the flexible tip. Put a cut down case in the mix and you have a lot less capacity for powder. If you mess up and put too much powder in the case -- note, this could be below the published maximum, depending on what data you use -- the powder can only compress so far and you will end up smashing the tip into something much less aerodynamic. It looks like a round nose with the ftx tip sticking out!

A few tips for success. 1) A hornady die set with a seating stem for the ftx bullet so as to not damage the tip. 2) Use a dummy round to find the cartridge maximum length that will cycle in your rifle. You may not need to use a cut down case in a rifle. Remember that factory ammo has to also fit in the shortest revolver cylinder ever made. 3) Find the maximum amount of powder that will fit without compressing and damaging the tip and work up to that. If you choose to not go the hornady die/ftx seating stem route, just know that you only really have one chance per bullet to seat/crimp. After that, they look like what I described above.

Try up to 20 gr. Lil'gun with CCI 350 magnum primers in shortened cases. Drops deer DRT.

You might try loading up a dummy round using a regular (un-trimed) 44mag case and see just how long the oal/bullet shoulder can be and still chamber. Just because you have to trim the 44mag brass so you get a 1.610" max oal for some revolvers, has nothing to do with your lever action. Last I knew the marlins had llloooonnnggg throats in them.

Perhaps less freebore of the bullet will tighten your groups up.

KansasSasquatch said:

What I find interesting is that Hodgdon recommends to not reduce H110/W296 max loads by more than 3%. So going by Hodgdon's max data for the FTX bullet in .44mag, the charge range should be 20.8gr minimum to 21.5gr max. But yet they actually list 19.4gr to 21.5gr, which *suggests* that a 10% reduction is okay with this combination.

*I say suggests because there could always be a typo in the printed or online data*

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If you look at Hodgdon's published data for H110/W296, you will see they regularly have starting loads in the 10%+ reduction from max with many different bullet weights/profiles and different calibers..........not just with the 225s in .44 mag. I believe the old 3% rule is just a basic rule of thumb when using other info and you only have a published max. Look at some of Hornady's published loads using H110/W296 in .44 mag. With their 240 XTP they show almost a 20% reduction from max....still they consider it safe. I guess I would also, since they are under the same liability as Hodgdon.

There may be a myriad of reasons the OP is having problems with the 225s....could be the load, they way they are loaded or just his gun doesn't like 'em. Since he claims to have made some very accurate loads before in the same caliber, for the same firearm., I tend to think it's the latter. IMHO, the little red pointy tips on the 225 FTXs are not going to give any significant measurable gains in ballistics when shot from a .44 lever gun as compared to any other quality projectile. One may gain a tad flatter trajectory over standard 240s, but that is going to be from the lesser weight and not the profile. Then one has to consider if that minuscule, if any, difference, is worth the extra cost. Again, if the OP is getting 1.5" groups @ 100 yards with a stock .44 lever carbine, he is getting about all he can outta the rifle and should probably have an enormous grin on his face. Iffin it were me(and I have a coupla .44 carbines), I'd go back to that 240 gr load that gave me those excellent groups, forget the 225 FTXs, and never look back

You did not mention the rifling in your Marlin. If your rifle has a Micro-Groove barrel the .429 or .430 cast bullets are under sized to the throat and bore.
The Micro-Groove requires a cast bullet of .434 to maintain accuracy. Ranch Dog bullet molds were made for Micro barrels. I would try IMR 4227 for your cast bullets. It seems you are using a very light load? If you exceed 1,500 fps use a gas check. Good luck.

http://www.reloadammo.com/44loads.htm

Dog Soldier said:

You did not mention the rifling in your Marlin. If your rifle has a Micro-Groove barrel the .429 or .430 cast bullets are under sized to the throat and bore.
The Micro-Groove requires a cast bullet of .434 to maintain accuracy. Ranch Dog bullet molds were made for Micro barrels. I would try IMR 4227 for your cast bullets. It seems you are using a very light load? If you exceed 1,500 fps use a gas check. Good luck.

http://www.reloadammo.com/44loads.htm

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While very good information, I see little relevance to the question posed by the OP and his problem with 225FTX accuracy. While he does not state whether or not his highly accurate 200 or 240 gr loads were with jacketed or cast, his success with them tells me, one way or the other, he has already found something his gun really likes. IMHO, if one is not casting their own bullets and are buying cast bullets with GCs, there really is no advantage over quality commercial jacketed in .44 mag(some may claim hard cast performs better on dangerous game, but since the OP is talking the 225 FTX for hunting, I doubt if he is going there). Many times the infamous 240gr XTP is cheaper and just as effective terminally than readily available GCed lead, and much less finicky. Again JMHO.

The process of elimination is how problems are diagnosed. The Micro-Groove barrels present special challenges.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin-MicroGroove.htm

I read an article in shooting times a couple months ago about the FTX Bullet and how to reload it. They had so much trouble, special seater.trim length and still poor performance. I think if I want to shoot an ftx I'll buy a box because their are a list of bullets that are just as good as the ftx and are a whole lot easier to load.just my 2

Dog Soldier said:

The process of elimination is how problems are diagnosed. The Micro-Groove barrels present special challenges.

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But not with jacketed bullets, like the Hornady 225gr FTXs, which is the topic of this thread. You are not eliminating anything, only introducing information not pertinent. The tendency for the micro-grooved barrels to be finicky about lead projectiles is well known and has been touched upon here and on every other gun forum for years. Yet they are known to shoot most jacketed bullets very well. The diameter of the 225 FTXs is .430, same as many other .44 mag jacketed bullets and larger than some others(.429). What is the appropriate diameter of a lead bullet for micro-grooved barrels has nuttin' to do with the OPs accuracy problem with the FTXs.

alientrainwreck said:

I read an article in shooting times a couple months ago about the FTX Bullet and how to reload it. They had so much trouble, special seater.trim length and still poor performance. I think if I want to shoot an ftx I'll buy a box because their are a list of bullets that are just as good as the ftx and are a whole lot easier to load.just my 2

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This is where I'm at with them, that and the significant cost difference over traditional jacketed bullets appropriate for hunting with a .44 mag. Not everything new is better.

He posted he was not getting accuracy from the FTX. An alternative in a Micro Groove is a hard cast. You posted he should accept your standard 240 grs, and drop the 225 grs and never look back? What is a standard .44 240 grs bullet anyway? When loading the FTX great care must be taken case and OAL dimension.
https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/...m-Rifle-Using-225-GR-Hornady-FTX-Bullets/6707