Why Hold the Trigger of a 1911 to the Rear When Chambering a Round

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RX-79G

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Could someone please explain what is accomplished by holding the trigger down when loading from slide lock? I had understood it is to prevent the sear and hammer hooks from impacting each other, but the mechanism should disconnect the sear from the trigger as soon as the slide starts forward.

Thank you.
 
I don't do it, and have never heard anyone recommend doing so.

One of the main causes of "slam fires" is having the "booger hook on the bang switch" and reflexively tightening the grip when the slide slams home thereby firing the gun -- its not just a 1911 thing. But by having the trigger "pulled" before chambering a round from slide lock would make it behave exactly as it does when shooting. Maybe with a high dollar, super light, borderline unsafe trigger job it'd be worthwhile, but I'd worry about being late with the squeeze and firing the gun negligently.

I think having the fingers out of the trigger guard when chambering a round is by far the better course of action, and the only thing I've ever seen taught.
 
The sear engages the hammer's main notch before the slide reaches its locking position. Holding the trigger to the rear maintains disconnect status as the slide is released from its locked position.
 
The sear engages the hammer's main notch before the slide reaches its locking position. Holding the trigger to the rear maintains disconnect status as the slide is released from its locked position.
Why would you want to maintain "disconnect status"?
 
I had understood it is to prevent the sear and hammer hooks from impacting each other, but the mechanism should disconnect the sear from the trigger as soon as the slide starts forward.

Hammer hooks cannot impact one another and the trigger does not contact the sear on a 1911 directly rather it pushes on the disconnect that pushes on the sear. Once the disconnect is pushed down with the trigger held back the trigger now has no effect on the sear as the link between the two is pushed out of place, until the trigger is allowed to move back forward and the disconnect can reset.

If springs or angles are not right or a heavy trigger impacts the disconnect when being slammed around (like dropping the slide on an empty chamber) then the hammer will fall to "half cock" and when this happens the sear contact surface crashes into that surface compromising the fit with the "full cock" engagement surface. Holding the trigger back will conceal all of those problems, unless there is something wrong with the disconnect itself.
 
This sounds like a really bad idea to me, as well as a bunch of nonsense. There are plenty of quirky traditions/superstitions when it comes to the 1911, no doubt since it's a fickle design by nature.
 
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Function of the Disconnector http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?1011-Function-of-the-Disconnector


The slide controls the disconnector.
Yup.

If springs or angles are not right or a heavy trigger impacts the disconnect when being slammed around
So the issue is essentially that if the trigger spring is too light, the sear spring is too light, the hooks too smooth and the trigger too massive it will act like a firing pin, crash into the disconnector and force the sear off the hammer hook?

Is this a general issue, or specific to high mass Gold Cup triggers and 2 lbs triggers, or will a 4 lbs alloy trigger 1911 do this?
 
Since I'm not an expert this is a new twist on the 1911 doctrine.
Are we actually claiming that to protect the inner workings of this watch like device, the trigger needs to be pulled while putting the slide into battery?
 
IIRC, this was/is done with bullseye guns that have very light triggers to prevent hammer follow when the slide slams into battery. The impact could cause the trigger to bounce back and forth dropping the hammer or the cause the hammer to bounce off the sear. It's nothing new, it's an old bullseye shooter's trick that has been around forever. There's no reason to do it with a "regular" 1911.
 
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I have shot a .45 AutoOrdnance clone of 1911A1 with factory trigger since 1997. I know, it's a crude low-end copy.
I have never heard of holding the trigger down while releasing the slide with the slide lock to load first round. If it was critical I suspect I would have heard about it before now. Also I suspect the range safety officer would gig me for having a finger on the trigger while loading.
I'll ask about this when the military match season starts in March if I remember. I suspect it is done to have the same sear-hammer reset for first round as for 2nd, 3rd, etc. Must take a real sensitive trigger and finger to tell the difference.
I prefer to follow the rule of finger off the trigger until sights are on an intended target.
 
Because of Bullseye guns with very light trigger jobs AND heavy steel triggers (believe it or not there WAS a time before one could buy ultra lightweight parts for 1911s). Inertia held the steel trigger in place while the gun moved forward and the trigger would tap the sear/disconnector sometimes with just enough force to release the hammer. Once alum. triggers became available it was not really necessary but so many guys were taught to do it that you still see it from time to time. I did it on my guns with 1.5 lb. pulls. (even with an alum. trigger) back when I shot competition. "Some" ROs will DQ you if they see you do it. Blame it on the FAT Gold Cup steel trigger........
 
Is this a general issue, or specific to high mass Gold Cup triggers and 2 lbs triggers, or will a 4 lbs alloy trigger 1911 do this?

I can't really answer your question I don't drop the slide onto an empty chamber and that creates more "shock" to everything than lowering the slide onto an empty chamber and/or stripping a round from the magazine then running it up the breech face into the extractor and into the chamber. All of which reduce the impact.

That said I have gold cups with wide triggers and 1911 style 2011/Infinity pistols with 1.5lb trigger pulls and I don't have hammer follow issues (the only time I put my finger on the trigger is when I am ready to drop the hammer). So I would have to assume it is from incorrect angles on engagement surfaces or spring issues that would be the problem.
 
What does that mean? Isolates what from what?

Isolating the parts or steps of a machine's operation is self-explanatory; it is easier to determine what is happening when you examine one function at a time.

Holding the trigger back while the slide is released from its lock position prevents the disconnector from reconnecting, which isolates trigger movement (for instance, to check for 'trigger bounce' as described above) from hammer and sear movement (for instance, to check for 'hammer bounce' as described above).
 
As said above, it was a semi-common practice back in the days of bullseye competition where some of the limits of mechanical advantage were pushed to such a fine line that negative things sometimes happened.

Like a great many other things over the years, it continues to appear in odd places today because somebody saw somebody do it who learned it from somebody who was told that so-and-so, who was a crack shot back in the day, did it that way. No manufacturer of 1911s recommends it or puts it in their instructional manuals.
If you send a 1911 to a target-tuner gunsmith today and tell him you have to have a 1.x lb. trigger pull -- after he finishes telling you he doesn't think that's a very good idea -- he might tell you to do this to keep the razor edges protected.
 
Holding the trigger to the rear when charging is no different than how the action cycles upon any shot fired. The slide cycles on top of a rearward trigger. It's safe, and it's how it's designed to operate.

Effectively, by pulling the trigger while charging and isolating the disconnector, you're ensuring a SAFER AND MORE SECURE sear engagement.
 
Thanks everyone for summarizing the problem.

It strikes me that there are two alternatives:
1. With a long trigger, you could push it forward with the trigger finger on the side of the trigger, preventing the trigger from bouncing back.
2. Hold the hammer back with the thumb when releasing the slide, isolating it from the sear until after the slide has closed.
 
It was a common practice among old timers when I started shooting bullseye maybe 20 years ago. The reason given was to protect the delicate trigger job. It was banned as a violation of the 'finger only on trigger when ready to fire' rule maybe 15 years ago. I never saw, or heard of, any untoward events of damage after the practice was banned.
 
Sam1911 in Reply#18d has it right, ie; to protect highly action tuned guns with very light triggers. . Very common mode of operation in the "Bullseye" game, but completely unnecessary for a normal 1911. Some oldtimers still do it out of habit. In general, trying to go any lighter than 2 1/2lb pull in a 1911 isn't the best thing in any case, and today wouldn't be legal for competition anyway.
 
2. Hold the hammer back with the thumb when releasing the slide, isolating it from the sear until after the slide has closed.

Not really feasible to do this with a beaver tail grip safety model. You'd have to ride the slide slowly forward until you could get your thumb onto the hammer, risking the slide failing to close into battery.

5567d1380551437-colt-xse-1911-xse-open.jpg
 
Not really feasible to do this with a beaver tail grip safety model. You'd have to ride the slide slowly forward until you could get your thumb onto the hammer, risking the slide failing to close into battery.
But it should work fine on a standard model. And the gun in the photo has the kind of trigger it would be easy to pin forward with your finger.
 
But in a match which bans fingers on triggers until firing command, you're not allowed to either pull or pin the trigger while charging...
 
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