What is the most efficient 9mm round you carry for Self and Home Defense

I like the Federal 9BPLE.

It's a +P+ version of the classic hi-shok. I bought a short case years ago and carry it frequently.

I'm also warming up to Gold Dots.

alientrainwreck said:

View attachment 226457 View attachment 226457 View attachment 226457 [View attachment 226457 =full]226458[/ATTACH] When I worked for the U.S. MARSHAL SERVICE we had to carry either the Remington golden sabre +P or the federal Hydrashock +P nothing else was allowed. One night me and another marshal had a man in a house with a federal warrant along with two other men and a dead woman laying in the yard we waited for assistance to arrive and as we were planning out how to do this without killing them all inside the house all of a sudden all hell broke loose they were trying to make their escape from out of the garage came a suburban with guns blazing they hit another vehicle in reverse and got their vehicle hung up with another when they crashed into it so they were stuck but still guns blazing I was about 50 feet from their vehicle as the other marshals drew the gun fire there direction I opened my passenger side door to be able to see them clearly but I couldn't see the third man he was in the back somewhere I only had shots at the two men in the front seat so I fired a total of 4 shots killing the two men in the front instantly ( face and neck shots ) then the shooting stopped for a moment as I crawled through my vehicles front seats to come out on my drivers side the gunfire started again as I was out I was hit in the upper left thigh and again in my left hip, the assisting officers quickly killed the third man. I was shooting a Sig 226 loaded with 124gr Hydrashock +p ammo and the funny thing about it is I was shot by the exactly the same ammo that I was shooting federal 124gr Hydrashock +p they retrieved the two slugs that I was shot with from the cushion in my front seat. I was able to get them eventually just to have. And I can tell you that those two slugs almost killed me even though they were nowhere near my head or heart. And the pain was unimaginable. Here is the picture of the two bullets that I was shot with. Federal 124gr Hydrashock, one of the slugs lost it's jacket somewhere and the other is perfect and it still weighs 124 grains. Here they are.

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Tough job, I was offered a position decades ago but felt there was too much time away from home involved. This was during some Boston school desegregation issues and was told I could be months or more away at a time.

Glad you were able to take two of them out of the fight, and that you're here to tell the tale.

Whenever we have a best bullet question question there is someone who will post "Its all about shot placement" which while true has nothing to do with the subject. JHP is no less accurate than ball, certainly more accurate than cheap ball. So if both are as accurate what does shot placement have to do with the subject? What good ammo does is make a marginal shot better. It won't save you if you miss or hit something unimportant but it will do more damage to vulnerable areas, a bigger hole is a bigger hole.
There are reasons states ban FMJ from hunting, they don't do enough damage so the game then runs away to die slowly somewhere else, generally a long way away.

A gun is no better than its ammo. The bullet is what does all the work. The most expensive high quality gun shooting junk ammo means that something got shot by junk. A high quality bullet coming out of a Highpoint means that something got shot with an effective bullet.

I use 165grn critical defense or critical duty it does a great job, ? lol

Browning said:

You mean in gelatin that follows the FBI standards for calibration and which then goes on to duplicate the FBI tests?

Both of the loads are also on the approved ammunition list.

Okay Bubba.

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Is the gelatin temperature controlled as it is in tests done by LE agencies? Other control factors are exercised by the LE agency that are difficult to duplicate in the gravel pit.

I didn't say it's impossible to duplicate tests like the FBI does. It is difficult.

There are a lot more You Tube videos shooting milk jugs.

I carry Federal 147 HST +P in cold weather and Federal 115GR +P+ JHP in warm weather.

Both have been proven on the street.

Good Ol' Boy said:

For me personally even stepping up to a 124 has more felt recoil and a 147 is even more so. The 115 Sig's feel exactly the same as my target rounds.

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My experience was that Blazer brass 115gr fmj VS. Blazer brass 147gr was that the 147gr actually seemed to recoil mildly softer and less snappy than the 115gr.
I have always had a steady hand tremble for as long as I can remember and shooting one handed accurately is difficult for me but when I do decide to shoot one handed exclusively for practice I found the heavier 124gr and 147gr are my choice.
I suppose it could just be in my head and it's only a mild difference but I feel I shoot more quickly and accurately with the heavier loads.

I am a fan of Gold Dot Short Barrel. My carry 9mm pistols are all in the short barrel category, and all shoot GDSB reliably and accurately, with less muzzle flash than any other round I have tried. Just got some in yesterday to rotate my carry rounds out.

DustyGmt said:

My experience was that Blazer brass 115gr fmj VS. Blazer brass 147gr was that the 147gr actually seemed to recoil mildly softer and less snappy than the 115gr.
I have always had a steady hand tremble for as long as I can remember and shooting one handed accurately is difficult for me but when I do decide to shoot one handed exclusively for practice I found the heavier 124gr and 147gr are my choice.
I suppose it could just be in my head and it's only a mild difference but I feel I shoot more quickly and accurately with the heavier loads.

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I guess that's why they call it "perceived felt recoil".

I tend to shoot more quickly and accurately with heavier GUNS,

Left to right: *** - Hornady 124gr TAP - Winchester PDX1 147gr - Federal Hydra Shok 147gr - Federal HST 124gr - Hornady Critical Duty 135gr - ***


I can't tell you if one is more efficient than the other but I can tell you which one in my opinion is the most versatile and that's the Hornady Critical Duty 135gr.

When I think about efficiency I think it breaks into two separate categories. One for duty and one for civilian defense.
I feel the most likely event that I would have to defend myself would be in a place where potential for collateral damage would be a huge factor and distance would be from 10' to point blank range. That lead me to find that the most efficient round for me was critical defense 115gn. It falls within the lighter side of standards at around 12-13" of penetration. The polymer tip prevents clogging and increases consistency of expansion limiting the chance of over penetration. That is my take efficiency when it comes to civilian defense. Efficiency for a duty carry 9mm would be a whole different animal that I have not spent much time thinking of but comes with vastly different scenarios. Hat tipped to the LEOs who have to deal with it.

GRIZ22 said:

Is the gelatin temperature controlled as it is in tests done by LE agencies? Other control factors are exercised by the LE agency that are difficult to duplicate in the gravel pit.

I didn't say it's impossible to duplicate tests like the FBI does. It is difficult.

There are a lot more You Tube videos shooting milk jugs.

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The few youtubers who are the most professional about it (I.e. : like the two I posted) don't do it inside in a climate controlled building that's set up so that the gel doesn't turn into a big blob within a couple hours if that's what you're asking. Most ammunition companies aren't even set up for that.

(As an example here's a Test at Federal (*Click for link*) - See? It's not in a building set at the same temp as the block [39 degrees Fahrenheit])


Gel test at Federal Premium in Minnesota

It goes directly from the freezer into ice chests and then is carried outside a short distance to their yard where they have the cameras set up and then they pop it.

It's not stuck in a car for a long trip. Nothing involves a gravel pit (although that would be fine just so long as the molds and freezer was in a trailer at said gravel pit and they were able to get the block at 39 degrees Fahrenheit and kept the time constraints in mind - that the block cools 0.6°F every four minutes if in an outside temp of 80 degrees F).

I'm not sure why a gravel pit keeps coming up. Did you see a video involving some complete doofus with milk jugs and wet phone books at a gravel pit or something?

Browning said:

The few youtubers who are the most professional about it (I.e. : like the two I posted) don't do it inside in a climate controlled building that's set up so that the gel doesn't turn into a big blob within a couple hours if that's what you're asking. Most ammunition companies aren't even set up for that.

(As an example here's a Test at Federal (*Click for link*) - See? It's not in a building set at the same temp as the block [39 degrees Fahrenheit])

Gel test at Federal Premium in Minnesota

It goes directly from the freezer into ice chests and then is carried outside a short distance to their yard where they have the cameras set up and then they pop it.

It's not stuck in a car for a long trip. Nothing involves a gravel pit (although that would be fine just so long as the molds and freezer was in a trailer at said gravel pit and they were able to get the block at 39 degrees Fahrenheit and kept the time constraints in mind - that the block cools 0.6°F every four minutes if in an outside temp of 80 degrees F).

I'm not sure why a gravel pit keeps coming up. Did you see a video involving some complete doofus with milk jugs and wet phone books at a gravel pit or something?

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I never said anything about temperature controlled building. I said it was difficult to reproduce.

You can find videos of people shooting into phonebooks, milk jugs, and other crap on this forum. You'll see them shooting in gravel pits, backyards, etc. I didn't list every type of improvised range.

I don't know why you attempt to discount my observation of some types of "ammo testing" by showing something entirely different.

JR Whitt wrote: "When I think about efficiency I think it breaks into two separate categories. One for duty and one for civilian defense"

That's not by accident at Hornady. An interesting read here on that very topic: https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...learing-up-confusion-over-Hornady-ammunition/

There is no one best bullet. There are a decent handful which will reliably expand over .50 cal while penetrating 12"+ after 4 layers of denim. I have stuck with Gold Dots, 124 +P, 124 standard and right now 115g which also perform very well. HST and Ranger are also very good.

GRIZ22 said:

I never said anything about temperature controlled building. I said it was difficult to reproduce.

You can find videos of people shooting into phonebooks, milk jugs, and other crap on this forum. You'll see them shooting in gravel pits, backyards, etc. I didn't list every type of improvised range.

I don't know why you attempt to discount my observation of some types of "ammo testing" by showing something entirely different.

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1) I was giving as much information as possible and discussing the variables of individualized testing. Temperatures matter when testing gel. Maybe you've never dealt with it.

2) I wasn't discounting your previous experience of watching YouTube videos where they used improvised medium for testing.

I was discounting what you had to say because you threw your opinion out without apparently even viewing the videos that I actually posted.

Browning said:

1) I was giving as much information as possible and discussing the variables of individualized testing. Temperatures matter when testing gel. Maybe you've never dealt with it.

2) I wasn't discounting your previous experience of watching YouTube videos where they used improvised medium for testing.

I was discounting what you had to say because you threw your opinion out without apparently even viewing the videos that I actually posted.

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I have been involved with testing ammunition from a LE agency. I am aware of the variables that need to be controlled.

I didn't criticize your videos. Go back and read what I said. I was rather specific in categorizing videos. I didn't criticize all ammunition testing videos. I doubt anyone has watched all the ammunition testing videos.

You shouldn't be so sensitive because everyone hasn't watched your videos.

You should be more High Road and not try to insist I said something I didn't.

147gr HST in my Glock 19, Glock 26, and Glock 43.

george burns said:

We talk about calibers a lot, but specifically what do you use and why. Is it a 115 grain jacketed Hollowpoint, or something else? Please give a reason why you feel it is best for either or both purposes.

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I don't understand what you mean by "most efficient" in your thread title, but I'll give you the reasons for my choice.

When I carry my 92FS, it's loaded with Gold Dot 115 gr. hollowpoints.

Gold Dot because they heve excellent expansion characteristics and 115 gr. because that's the same mass as what I shoot for target practice.

They feed reliably and the point of impact is the same as my target ammo.

Shawn Dodson said:

147gr HST in my Glock 19, Glock 26, and Glock 43.

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I know you have some experience with bullet testing, care to go into a little more detail?

Another vote for the Federal 124-gr HST, followed by the Hornady Critical Defense.

gun_with_a_view said:

JR Whitt wrote: "When I think about efficiency I think it breaks into two separate categories. One for duty and one for civilian defense"

That's not by accident at Hornady. An interesting read here on that very topic: https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...learing-up-confusion-over-Hornady-ammunition/

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I can't site that one specifically, but similar articles led me to my decision.

I'd say climate has a bit to do with it as well. If you are in Phoenix in the summer you are not real worried about 4 layer denim penetration. Bit different in Minnesota in the winter. I really don't pay much attention to that part of tests.

Having read and seen tests over the last ten years on the internet, one experts favorite is usually rendered run of the mill with continuing ammo development. And yes, testing protocol is highly subjective and can influence results.

There is another issue being ignored - what rates well from a 4.25 inch barrel belt gun may be considered substandard from a 3" barrel and vice versa. Velocity from different barrel lengths can substantially alter the results. It is specifically how .380 has been improved over the last five years. Originally tested to shoot from longer holster carry European guns it did well, but shoot from shorter pocket pistols and .380 became widely disparaged. Ammo makers took note, cut their test barrels down to reflect what was selling on the market, redesigned the expansion of the bullet, and .380 is now doing better in gel testing.

Your favorite documented 9mm from a 5" service barrel may not perform as well from a 3 1/2". Until you test - or accept the test results of Joe Schmoe at the gravel pit - you don't know it's a reliable expander. It's a mental exercise and for the most part that kind of engineering never survives reality unless done by the experts. It's like racing cars - the last famous winner drawn on a cocktail napkin was the Daytona Coupe. The car that replaced it was cad cammed - the GT40.

Unless you shoot ammo in your FBI protocol tests, documented, you are guessing. For the most part it doesn't make a large difference in 9mm if you choose an expanding tip and load which is considered designed for that barrel length - not something found very often printed for reference. What we do see printed is Brand Names chosen to evoke a visceral response with graphic art to support it's gravitas. Then we reach over and grab the next best thing that's $5 a box cheaper.

Currently I shoot Hornady American Gunner, uses XP bullets and decent pricing across the board. It's run of the mill in most tests, which makes it better than a lot and arguably less good than some others which were shot in a gravel pit. It is reliable in all my guns, it's cheap enough I will shoot it more often, it's good enough to do the job. If it gets two more inches of penetration or not, I won't likely ever know, and I'm not switching up my carry ammo for seasonal considerations. I'll leave that to others to finesse and then read the incident reports on shootings. For the most part we never see what kind of ammo was used. These days, the incidents get politicized too quickly. Like, what ammo did Dylan Roof use? Don't know, don't want to go there. It apparently wasn't feeble junk.

Gel isn't that convenient and in the day wet newspaper was the standard. Not going to worry over it much.