TCP Fatal Flaw

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Lokichoki

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I absolutely love small pistols I've owned everything from Astra Cubs to Zenith tisas fatih, I picked up a Taurus TCP just because I liked it , good trigger pull a slide lock it looks very good aesthetically cheap enough I can practice new gun finishes on the slide and not feel bad etc (I'm actually thinking of copper plating or oil quenching it). Now finally to the topic at hand if you short stroke the trigger before the full reset the sear will drop the hammer without drawing the hammer back this of course can cause you to die a horrible death and your bowels will magically shoot out your ears. But seriously if you have one or hold one feel the reset it has a noticeable click that is pretty much where most common striker fired guns reset at a decently short range but this is just the disconnect clicking up a stage. let it out to the triggers full travel and the disconnect fully comes up and will finally catch the hammer to have it travel the distance needed, let's say theoretically you have a need to use this firearm to save your bacon and you short stroke it you have to manually cycle in a new round since it doesn't have strike 2 capabilities. Normally short stroke a semi auto and no problem just let out but here if your in dire straits with large pupils good luck should of bought a revolver! And don't tell me in the comments "training issue" I call bovine scatology on that or it's a Taurus what do you expect. What are your guys/gals experience or have you had a similar abnormality on other guns I'd love to hear them. BUY A KAHR! :)
 
I doubt most in a SHTF situation are gonna short stroke the trigger....if anything they'll try to pull it clean out the back of the frame.
 
I have an LCP (official ol man mouse gun).
Works fine, shoots decent. Have no issues with it.
None with my light trigger (from factory) 1911 either.
Think too many people over think this stuff.
While some thought is good, more people would be better served by simply shooting more.
But that costs money.
 
During the shootings in the self defending, it matters not. Keep pulling trigger to defeat exposed enemy persons out to 20m.
 
Training issue.

Trying to finesse the reset for rapid fire is more competition than self defense. Pull the trigger thru and adopt a complete release to prevent the problem. Shot placement is important and just firing bullets to slide lock as rapidly as possible may not be warranted. Depending on circumstances, you may have just disarmed yourself.

Smooth is fast, the school of thought that demands speed in presentation and delivery is often just trying to sort out social hierarchy by a contest of marginal importance focused on one narrow issue.
 
I have put probably over a thousand rounds through my TCP and have never experienced this problem, but I always allow the trigger to return all the way forward and have never felt trying to find the exact reset in a trigger was enough benefit to use it, especially since I have and shoot so many different guns that each have different resets.
 
BUY A KAHR Made that mistake once in bottom of my safe . My PF-9 keltec replaced it . I Just can't find any love for Kahr .
I have never had any problems in almost 60 years of shooting with trigger resetting .
 
I've put alot of rounds through my TCP I reload alot and it is a good pistol but remember if it can go wrong it will, and I don't feel like this is over thinking it that problem is exactly what you need to be aware of and another example of being confident and in tune with a firearm you will use to save your life because remember it ain't there for target shooting.
 
What are your guys/gals experience or have you had a similar abnormality on other guns I'd love to hear them.

The TCP's trigger functions exactly as described and has functioned the same way since the gun was introduced seven or eight years ago. Some people have complained about the way the trigger operates since day one; the issue has been widely known for years. There is no after-market "fix" for the issue and it is doubtful that Taurus will change the design after this amount of time.

All I can suggest is don't buy guns that have well-known characteristics that you find unacceptable.
 
Good point gc70 , but I make it a point to have a unbiased unmolested view on a particular firearm for the purpose of review and functionality of a firearm for narrative purposes and personal collection of information ie no outside information to taint the "project". So this issue is still valid and new to me in this regard and besides it's a root conversation for the community. TX all
 
I have a TCP with a B serial number and it came with that totally unacceptable flaw. The early KelTecs had that flaw too, before KelTec corrected it. The Ruger LCP doesn't have that flaw as they took cues from the KelTec "second generation" fix when the the LCP was introduced.

It is beyond me why Taurus can't acknowledge the false trigger reset/hammer drop from half cock problem (like KelTec did) and do something about it.

In the meantime, if you own a TCP and don't like the problem but don't want to get rid of your gun, there is a fix. Some people are able to use a KelTec hammer block/sear in their Taurus and it's good to go. KelTec parts are readily available from KelTecs website. In my case I modded my TCP with Ruger parts. The hammer drop from half cock with the false reset is no longer a problem with my TCP. Here's a thread regarding this issue which also contains the details to my fix to my TCP.

EDIT to add: Here's a link to another fix. At the end, he notes that a KelTec hammer catch can solve the problem.
 
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By the way, if anyone has fired pre-cocked guns enough, you know what an accidental trigger pull at short reset of the trigger gets you. In properly designed guns, nothing happens. The striker or hammer stay in their pre-cocked position and you can fully reset the trigger to fire the gun.

The Taurus TCP problem is that if you accidentally short reset the trigger and pull the trigger, the hammer falls from it's pre-cocked position onto a live round. This gives a light strike which will not fire the cartridge. Which in a non-double-strike gun like the TCP, requires the slide to be racked to pre-cock the hammer again. Which wastes precious time as well as ejects a perfectly good cartridge from a low capacity firearm.
 
Um... So if we make a list of how many firearms have multiple clicks upon trigger reset....

Training issue, let the trigger out as far as it needs to be and you'll never have an issue. Don't train to play race gunner with your mouse gun and you'll be ok.
 
Um... So if we make a list of how many firearms have multiple clicks upon trigger reset....

How many on that list drop the hammer from pre-cock if the trigger is pulled from the first reset click?

The TCP is the only one I know of.

If the TCP were sold as a plinking fun gun, it would be less of a big deal. However, the TCP is sold as a last line of defense carry pistol.

I agree training is important and if shooters want to rely on training to overcome a mechanical flaw that's fine by me. However, with a simple dimension change on a part, that should be made by Taurus Brazil or Taurus USA, this problem goes away.

KelTec did it. Why can't Taurus?
 
How many on that list drop the hammer from pre-cock if the trigger is pulled from the first reset click?

The TCP is the only one I know of.

If the TCP were sold as a plinking fun gun, it would be less of a big deal. However, the TCP is sold as a last line of defense carry pistol.

I agree training is important and if shooters want to rely on training to overcome a mechanical flaw that's fine by me. However, with a simple dimension change on a part, that should be made by Taurus Brazil or Taurus USA, this problem goes away.

KelTec did it. Why can't Taurus?
I have pullled the trigger on mine well over a thousand times and not only never had it happen, but would not even know it existed if someone had not mentioned it here.

Since slow firing and rapid firing with this pistol through so many rounds without a single failure I feel perfectly comfortable with the TCP.

I have seen almost every kind of gun you can imagine fail at one time or another and am sure if you look hard enough you will find some kind of flaw in just about every gun design.

How many people have actually experienced this failure to reset? I expect not very many.
 
TCP problem is that if you accidentally short reset the trigger and pull the trigger, the hammer falls from it's pre-cocked position onto a live round. This gives a light strike which will not fire the cartridge. Which in a non-double-strike gun like the TCP, requires the slide to be racked to pre-cock the hammer again.

KelTec did it. Why can't Taurus?
Key word is "accidentally" short reset the trigger. ;)

And Taurus did it with PT145. When similar reports were made to PT145 with DAO trigger, they released the Millennium Pro PT145 with SA/DA trigger Taurus called "Multi Strike". The SA/DA trigger has a short reset and always fires in single action which is around 4 lbs on mine. If the first trigger pull does not fire the round (say due to high seated primer), the subsequent trigger pull will be heavier DA.

I have both TCP 738 and MilPro PT145 in stainless steel and have put around 10K rounds through PT145 and several thousand rounds through TCP and have not experienced trigger related issues. As to Taurus possibly releasing SA/DA model of TCP, that will be up to Taurus but for sub $200 price point of TCP, not sure if further R&R will be justifiable when the vast majority of TCP owners don't seem to have reported short stroking trigger problem you posted (who knows, perhaps they have).

This article review covers range rental TCP with 10,000+ rounds without failure or parts breakage which I believe speaks highly of durability and functionality of TCP with no mention of short stroke trigger problem - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-100-gr-rnfp-range-test.748320/#post-9542698

Choice is yours.

If you want a USA made DAO pocket pistol for sub $200 that you have to use as DAO pistol with full stroking of trigger with smoothest and lightest DAO trigger I have shot along with a slide lock, buy the TCP. If you want a DAO pistol that is larger, has no slide lock and cost more but won't let you short stroke the trigger, buy something else. Heck, if you don't mind spending a few more dollars, you can get MilPro PT145 double stack 10 round 45ACP with SA/DA trigger that won't let you short stroke with comparable size to Glock 19/23 and thickness of XD.
 
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How many people have actually experienced this failure to reset? I expect not very many.

I have had this happen to me when I first tried my TCP at the range years ago. I didn't even realize what was happening until I slowed down and noticed the hammer not being fully cocked when it fell, by watching the hammer in the rear slot of the gun.

Since I thought I had a bad gun, I called Taurus customer service about it. Taurus tried to whitewash the issue back then, saying the TCP was a single action/double action gun. Which is not true.

What could be problematic is if one goes from shooting a gun with a short trigger pull (like a Glock) directly to shooting something with a long trigger pull (like a revolver or a DA type auto-pistol) it is easy to forget the transition.

A scenario could be where a concealed carry person has a primary gun like that Glock with a backup gun like a TCP on them. You empty that Glock then go immediately to something like a TCP and your trigger finger in a panic situation may not remember you now have a different gun in your hand. Both have pre-cocked firing mechanisms, and both are non-double strike guns, but one has a false reset that will cause a misfire and the other does not.

Every owner of a TCP that hasn't experienced this just hasn't had it happen yet. The design of the gun is what it is and an accidental short reset trigger pull could happen under stress.

My issue is truly with Taurus, not with other members of the High Road. As far as my last check, Taurus has stilll ignored this problem on a gun design that other companies have remedied. I guess I should just let the thread be as I've fixed my TCP and the problem is gone. No other carry gun I have has this problem either, so that's comforting as well.
 
Key word is "accidentally" short reset the trigger. ;)

Yep. I used the word "accidentally" as in a shooter is in a high stress situation and fubars the operation of the gun by not getting a full trigger reset before pulling the trigger.

. . . not sure if further R&R will be justifiable when the vast majority of TCP owners don't seem to have reported short stroking trigger problem you posted (who knows, perhaps they have).

The R&D would be copying the hammer catch/sear design of the KelTec and modifying the tooling to make that 50 cent MIM part. As far as Taurus owners not reporting it, most don't. But when I was active at Taurus Armed, I saw plenty of people report the problem independently of one another.

Look at the photo below. The bottom half of that photo shows the Taurus hammer block/hammer catch/sear compared to the Ruger version. That little bitty tip that the arrow points to is all that is needed to fix the problem, and KelTec lead the way before the LCP was even put to market.

Top half of photo - Trigger Bar / Bottom half of photo - hammer block
94289d1408941175-tcp-738-trigger-reset-question-d-series-380-tcp-reset-2.jpg
 
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Well, glad to have you on THR where no gun manufacturer is discriminated and bashed equally. :rofl:

Since they got a new CEO in 2014, Taurus seemed to have moved in the right direction. With TCP manufactured in USA, perhaps Taurus will be more responsive to their customer base?

Have you reported your findings to Taurus USA?
 
I'm sure Taurus knows this issue but I'm sure it's a how many people complain type deal I've heard they have a receptive CS, to be clear with the thread I started the gun shoots no problem at range conditions in fact I love it just don't think I would consider it a primary with this issue even if it seems negligible to some pork rinds (chikkarones) replied on point and I will definitely take a look into modifying after talking with Taurus USA to get some info
 
TCP 738 was bought for my wife as back up to her Glock 27. She enjoys the smooth DAO trigger and I have shot several thousand rounds (along with my shooting buddies) and have not experienced short stroke trigger problem.

But don't take my word, have some brand new shooters to TCP fire the pistol without telling them about the short stroke trigger. If all the shooters do not experience short stroke trigger issue, it may not become an issue. If they all experience problem, then it is a problem.
 
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