Reversing Barry's Executuive Order Banning Surplus Imports

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I'm relatively new to collecting older firearms and new to the shooting sports in general, so I may be misunderstanding the import ban altogether. Is the ban ban imposed on certain countries hostile to our national interests and security? For instance, although I'd love to have a decent SKS at a lower price, among other older milsurp firearms, I wouldn't feel comfortable paying for one if I knew my money would go to fill the coffers of one of our hostile enemies, such as North Korea or Iran. And if I'm reading the posts on here correctly, it sounds like the ban is more against other enemy countries (perhaps as part of sanctions against them?), than on any particular firearm. Is that right? And if so, wouldn't such a ban be a good thing, to keep an enemy of ours from profiting off of us? Or am I misunderstanding the issue?
 
There are a few different item being discussed in this thread. All of them are related to imported firearms.

1. A number of surplus US military arms which were to be returned to the United States have been held up by the State Department for years. Some are US property borrowed from us while others were sold and returned. These included M1garands from Korea which in theory would be given to the CMP for distribution to the public.

2. An executive order (e.o.) was recently signed by President Obama which banned imports of arms from certain Russian companies which cut off some supplies of some commercial and Soviet surplus rifles and handguns.

3. An old e.o. from 20+ years ago which banned most firearms and ammunition from China, both surplus and new commercial production.

The relation of these items is that all were done by departmental or executive decree and in each case choked off supplies of relatively inexpensive and popular firearms. Add in some of the ATF ammo restrictions and people really get worked up. These are always good subjects for conspiracy theories in gun shops and ranges. Yes, they could be reversed without major acts of Congress. How likely that is to happen remains to be seen.

Edit -- #1 the story about CMP goes round and round. It is wrong. The rifles were designated for sales through distributors, but just about every time you look it up the CMP is inevitably mentioned.

There are plenty of reasons why any items have been blocked front importation, good or bad. The speculation is whether any of them will be reversed.
 
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1. A number of surplus US military arms which were to be returned to the United States have been held up by the State Department for years. Some are US property borrowed from us while others were sold and returned. These included M1garands from Korea which in theory would be given to the CMP for distribution to the public.

You got any reputable source for this information?

The CMP has said since day one they would not get any of those Korean guns. Those guns were given to the Koreans, not loaned. Most people don't understand that the CMP does not import military firearms. They only get what the DoD gives them. The DoD does not have to import any guns that are theirs to begin with, i.e. loaned to a foreign nation. I don't know why so many people don't understand this. It has been a urban myth for years and years now. Someone needs to make a sticky about it so we can quit having to correct this every few months.

I know it is fun to obama bash about this, but it is just not truthful.......................




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This is the real reason the China gun bans were signed in the first place -- protecting the US market from cheaper imports. I know this is a shocker, but people actually like them and will buy millions given the opportunity to buy new (not old surplus) rifles and handguns at low prices.
Actually, Norinco (North China Industries, the Chinese state run export company) was caught trying to sell full auto AK's and rocket launchers to organized crime syndicates in the US. This was back under the George H.W. Bush administration. Norinco has been sanctioned for selling missile components to Iran and North Korea since then, they are not our friend. Some Chinese imports- as far as I know only "sporting shotguns", are still allowed, and have more direct effect on US manufactures than surplus rifles ever did.
 
I'd much rather have a Polytech M14 than a Springfield Armory M1A. Any day, by a long shot. Just need to put a proper flash hider on.
 
Allow me to corr
You got any reputable source for this information?

The CMP has said since day one they would not get any of those Korean guns. Those guns were given to the Koreans, not loaned. Most people don't understand that the CMP does not import military firearms. They only get what the DoD gives them. The DoD does not have to import any guns that are theirs to begin with, i.e. loaned to a foreign nation. I don't know why so many people don't understand this. It has been a urban myth for years and years now. Someone needs to make a sticky about it so we can quit having to correct this every few months.

I know it is fun to obama bash about this, but it is just not truthful.......................

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We are kind of going off in the weeds. I edited my post. In no way was I intending to imply this is Obama's "fault." Anyway the chatter these days is about Trump striking old executive orders and allowing things to brought into the US again. When you look back none of the actions were done in a vacuum.

Actually, Norinco (North China Industries, the Chinese state run export company) was caught trying to sell full auto AK's and rocket launchers to organized crime syndicates in the US. This was back under the George H.W. Bush administration. Norinco has been sanctioned for selling missile components to Iran and North Korea since then, they are not our friend. Some Chinese imports- as far as I know only "sporting shotguns", are still allowed, and have more direct effect on US manufactures than surplus rifles ever did.

The sorted history of actions with the Chinese SKS and similar guns was quite convoluted. There were new restrictions in 1989, 1990, 1993, 1994, 2003 all using varying means to restrict imports. A quick google search can walk you through them. Suffice to say those years were not in the least bit gun friendly.

Since then there haven't been any new federal gun bans nor, as others have noted, any gun banning e.o.'s. There has however been administrative and executive actions which had the effect of stopping specific imports or excluding countries and companies. Executive action by a new administration and his appointees at various agencies can certainly open the flood gates if they so choose. I suspect it's not at the top of their priorities.
 
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I'd love to see the Chinese and Russian handgun bans repealed.

Lord knows I'd love a Makarov PM from both nations of manufacture.
 
If I were Trump, I'd write an executive order which nullifies all Obama orders since he was in office. Then review what was done and if something was good, replace it with a new order.

Well that would waste a lot of time. The vast majority of Executive Orders are very dull stuff involving the minutia of government. Stuff like this:

EXECUTIVE ORDER - - AMENDING EXECUTIVE ORDER 12137

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including section 19 of the Peace Corps Act, as amended (22 U.S.C. 2518) and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 12137. Executive Order 12137 of May 16, 1979, as amended, is further amended as follows:

(a) In section 1-1, a new section 1-113 is added to read as follows:

"1-113. The functions of adopting, altering, and using an official seal or emblem of the Peace Corps as set forth in section 19 of the Peace Corps Act (22 U.S.C. 2518) is hereby delegated to the Director of the Peace Corps."

(b) In section 1-3, section 1-301(e) is deleted.

Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

  1. the authority granted by law to an executive department, agency, or the head thereof; or
  2. the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.



BARACK OBAMA
 
.....that and the fact, that's been pointed out and linked to numerous times here, BO didn't have any gun related EOs.

Executive Actions, yes. Executive Orders, no.
 
Somehow Barack's ATF several years ago allowed a fairly large shipment of early Chinese SKS, the military rifles with their Blade bayonets. They were allowed because they were imported Not from the PR China, but Albania, maybe Slovenia also.
It seems strange that they were allowed in.

How hypocritical that Russian Saiga sporting rifles/shotgun were banned by Pres. Obama, but we 'apparently' supplied few, or no small arms etc to the Ukraine govt. during the massive insurgency in the east.

And now our White House--after the last eight years of obvious weakness and many missed opportunities-- supposedly is worried about the Russians ;).
The WH has only appeared angry when their politics are under sharp attack...
not by people killed by terrorists.

Cooldill: yes :) , and a small flood of EGs could also be 'willkommen'?
 
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Let's temper our enthusiasm for freight loads of cheap guns being imported with the reality of government bureaucracy. Trump could sign off in his swearing in ceremony and it would still be months before any guns hit our shores. They aren't sitting in conexes overseas with the paperwork and approvals all stamped and done.

There will be the ATF agents in place who will place the applications and forms in the pile to work on them first come first served which will require time and effort. Their work will proceed just as it has in the past - government bureaucracy isn't going to change, certainly NOT overnight, as the VA scandals have shown.

Some posts in threads over the Korea guns stated the poster had possibly seen - or was reporting - that observers of those firearms saw them in poor condition, at best. The majority seemed to be barrel grade - the old way surplus guns were sold at stores with more than a few. You literally dragged them out of the barrel and looked them over. The next one wasn't any better. Missing parts externally, cracks and chipped stocks, corrosion, etc. These are Korean Army Garands and they apparently evidence all the typical signs of neglect that most firearms do in the hands of second and third tier countries. It's likely a rack grade Garand that sold for $800 before they ran out will appear as mint.

As for foreign firearms makers coming to our shores and opening plants, they made the investment to bid contracts to the US Government, yes, and to avoid tariffs, sure. One thing not mentioned is that to bid a US contract the item MUST be Made In the USA. This isn't a political point, it's strategic - what good is the contract supplying arms if the vessels carrying them from offshore to here are targeted and sunk? We'd have a huge hole in our national security with that kind of supply issue. The law is known as the Berry Amendment and it's why American uniform suppliers have moved their factories to Puerto Rico, etc. Labor is much cheaper there since we became a "world econonmy" and most of our own clothing factories have shut down. Case in point, the Army can't find a running shoe supplier in the US and has to purchase - wait for it - KOREAN shoes to issue to our troops.

The bigger issue is that business, due to it's own operations, slowly "collectivises" over time as the bigger companies absorb or put out of business their competition. It's like auto parts - in the 1960's most stores were independently owned and operated, they sourced their stock thru jobbers who actually warehoused the larger buik of supply but who didn't sell to the public. In some cases the jobbers simply started their own store chains. In our town we went from a dozen stores to three chains - with about a dozen stores all together.

Firearms manufacturing is no different. How many Brands are under the shell company that owns Remington? One of their current successful guns they purchased from Rohrbaugh. Bushmaster, AAC, LAR Grizzly, Marlin, I've lost track of who is under that umbrella corp. Same with the other makers. Let's add auto makers - that parade goes all the way back to GMC in the 1920's. And some of those Brands are now defunct - no more Pontiacs, no American made Winchesters.

Anybody seen a new Mauser hunting rifle on the rack at their local gun store lately? And yet they supplied millions in WWII. As time goes by makers fall to the wayside. We quit supporting OUR gunmakers - like Colt, who doesn't seem to offer much in the way of revolvers now. Times and fashions tend to stress companies who won't or can't keep up. One of the more iconic Brands, like S&W, can't support their leading edge auto pistol any more - nobody will contract for all metal LEO guns much, the polymer frame as replaced it. So no more 9mm S&W's in police holsters. They were the first changing over from revolvers.

Times change.
 
A wide-open repeal would allow the Chinese to dump millions of junk SKS copies on the market.
So what? The more the better.

This would not be helpful to anyone that's a legitimate gun owner and would give the anties more than enough reason to scream.
GOOD. They should be made to scream as often as possible.

Limiting import to the Garrand helps legit gun owners, helps the CMP, supports new American gun manufacture (by not flooding the market with under-priced junk), and gives the anties zero basis for complaint. This since the M1 only holds 8 rounds, isn't colored black, has no pistol grip, and can only hold 8 rounds. They would be forced to change their own rules in order to complain !!.
I owned an SKS AND a "Blue Sky" Garand in the '90s. Are you saying I'm not a "legitimate gun owner"?

"Zero basis for complaint"? Are you JOKING? Your merely having ANY firearm gives the anti-gun cult "basis for complaint".
 
Fair number of plastic Smiths in police and other holsters, though.

I am not sure there is a right to buy Chinese Communist guns and ammo just because they are cheap.

I would like to see the US made, Korean issued guns reimported. They might be in rough condition, but I bet American enterprise could generate new parts to go on usable receivers.
 
Thank you all for all your comments. Lots of input and food for thought. Never thought my first post would gather so much attention. Look forward to interacting with this active group in the future.
 
Excuse me, I'm now a "snob" for having an opinion ?? What's so High Road about name calling ?
Friend, if you disagree, then there is a polite way to say so.

I can't speak for Acera but I don't think he meant any offense with the "don't be a snob" reference.
At least he didn't mean any more than you did when you basically said that anyone who would buy an SKS isn't a legit gun owner.

I don't think either of you meant it the way it came across.
It's not always easy to determine intent/sarcasm etc. when simply reading typed words on a screen.
 
Arkansas Paul put it nicely and got it kinda close, don't get your panties in a wad rfwoobbly. You come out bashing people, expect to get some of it back. Not a real fan of those that think restricting access to guns based on financial means is a good idea. One mans junk is another mans treasure.


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Arkansas Paul put it nicely and got it kinda close, don't get your panties in a wad rfwoobbly. You come out bashing people, expect to get some of it back. Not a real fan of those that think restricting access to guns based on financial means is a good idea. One mans junk is another mans treasure..
I had an SKS back in the '90s. They're excellent carbines, especially in a decent replacement stock. I won a carbine match with mine at NASA Lewis here in NE Ohio.

If I still had some place to shoot a rifle, I'd probably have an SKS.
 
"...foreign companies opened plants here..." To get around U.S. duties and NIH syndrome. Except for Berretta. They opened the plant to keep the M9 contract.
The Donald will have a lot more on his gold plate than Presidential Edicts about firearms. Not likely to be high on his priority list.
"...Nobody wanted them..." Mostly because their heavy handed stamp operators were damaging the barrels enough they were unsafe.
"...CMP is not affected by any import bans..." They really are just like anybody else. King Obama banned the import of the Korean M1 Rifle and Carbine sale. The CMP only gets what the military gives 'em, as I recall.
 
I think it would have been more to bypass possible importation restrictions, or avoid import tariffs. Those brands had no trouble selling here when they were imported.

All those things you mention are "buy American" issues.[/QUOTE]
I believe when most people think "buy American", it has more to do with supporting an American company, keeping profits in the US, and increasing US jobs, not avoiding import regulations.
 
The oft repeated myth (as often debunked) continues to live that CMP is somehow hurt by import bans. It has already been pointed out that the bandied about Korean rifles blocked for COMMERCIAL importation by the State Department weren't Lend Lease rifles and weren't going to go to CMP.
It has been said that the condition for many of them might be sad, but that doesn't deny that they have value as parts guns in a market here in the U.S. where milsurp Garand and M1 Carbine parts have nearly dried up. Those of us that collect milsurp firearms buy ugly guns at ugly-gun prices to get parts for project guns and importers buy ugly guns for parts to mark up and sell the parts to us. If there are "field grade" guns and parts grade guns that could be imported I assure you that plenty of us want the parts guns brought in as well as the shooters.
 
All those things you mention are "buy American" issues.
I believe when most people think "buy American", it has more to do with supporting an American company, keeping profits in the US, and increasing US jobs, not avoiding import regulations.[/QUOTE]

The Beretta plant in MD was first opened to build 25 ACP 950s in the late 70s early 80s. Walther began making making PPK/Ss in the US about the same time.

Beretta had to expand the MD facility when they got the M9 contract. They had to produce almost all of them here.

Glock and SIG definitely got more contracts from LE agencies when they opened facilities in the US.
 
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