SADDLE RINGS

They date back to the days of horse cavalry & are not routinely used any more.

Originally used to hook the carbine onto an over-the-shoulder "sling" strap.
Denis

They were the original "Single Point Tactical Sling." Wide leather load-bearing strap about the shoulder, and a snap device on a small strap that could be adjusted for height, would allow the carbine to hang vertically barrel-down beneath the rider's shoulder while riding (or on foot). Often there was a 'boot' or leather socket mounted on the saddle, which functioned like a short scabbard to control & support the muzzle of the carbine on horseback, but would allow the barrel to slide free when the rider stood in the stirrups to dismount.

Old dragoon-style cavalry had a lot of highly-specialized equipment suited to their tactics, which was forgotten/abandoned soon after they lost their steeds in future wars. I believe at one point there was even a similar but gigantic scabbard/sling system designed for the large Hotchkiss Portative machinegun, so a team of riders could rapidly close with an enemy line & deploy the crew served weapon. Probably for Colt potato diggers, too. I suppose this makes more sense than that infamous horse-mounted recoilless rifle.

TCB

"Saddle ring" is a misnomer because, as noted above, the carbine was carried on a sling attached to the man, not the saddle. "Saddle rings" today are just for decoration.

No personal use, but I've seen articles where people use them still as an attachment point for carrying through the woods. I find the one on my Rossi 92 carbine to be an annoyance; makes noise and scratches the finish around it.

They were used by civilians on the many saddle carbines produced by Winchester, Marlin Etc. The civilian carbines usually had a raw hide thong attached through the ring. The thong was slipped over the horn.
These SRC were mostly marketed to the Western states. Today gun collectors refer to the SRC Winchesters as Western Carbines. The Lever guns with out saddle rings are refereed to as Eastern Carbines.
The SRC were mostly dropped after 1950. But the advent of "Cowboy" shooting has revived the market for "Rattle Rings".

A short loop of rawhide or cord will stop the noise and damage

Some dudes were tactical before it was cool.

Can you imagine being beat to death with a swinging 10 pound carbine on a ruining horse? Those studio pictures were made to send home.

I think they used them across the pond like this.



And they might be useful to keep track of your rifle while you draw your sword.

If one looks at any Winchester catalog prior to 1940, you will never see the term saddle Ring used.

The carbine models were simply called carbines and Winchester referred to the rings as "Sling rings". The term "saddle ring carbine" or SRC is one of those fairly modern terms that people just adopted because it sounded good. For years Winchester lusted after a large military contract, so that's probably why they initially put sling rings on their carbines, and continued to do so long after horse cavalry was mostly obsolete---purely out of tradition, I guess.

If one looks at where the rings are positioned, you will realize that they are too far forward to be of much use as a fastening device for a saddle scabbard, but are instead located to the rear of the balance point so the carbine would hang vertically, but not so far rear that it would be difficult to pivot up to get into firing position.

For the cavalry, an early helper for carrying carbines attached to a sling was a item called the carbine socket. It was a heavy short tube of leather attached to the saddle at a point that the barrel of the carbine could be inserted while still hanging from the sling.

This addition kept the rifle from flopping around and slapping the horse if the troopers hands were otherwise occupied. This was eventually replaced in 1885 by what is referred to as the carbine boot, which is really just an abbreviated saddle scabbard, but was still used in conjunction with the sling.

socket


boot

The original "single point sling".....

I remember reading somewhere that the 92 Winchester was used in large numbers by South and Central American military. I suppose that may have been reason for the SR to have shown up on rifles not typical to our own Cavalry.

If you are a working cowboy, the lanyard through the the saddle ring could be used to tie the carbine to the D-Ring of your rear (roping) girth of the saddle. Since you typically do not need instantaneous access to the rifle, it kept it out of the way and securely stored until you had to use it as a working tool for snakes, varmints, food, or to put down an injured or sick animal. I have never known a cowpony that I would like to be sitting on while taking a shot at something.

wild willy said:

A short loop of rawhide or cord will stop the noise and damage

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You would think so, but I have such on mine and it still rattles and causes damage. In addition, sometimes the loop of rawhide fouls the action.

I'd prefer the carbine without the ring.

I have never known a cowpony that I would like to be sitting on while taking a shot at something.

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How about standing?

Dr T said:

If you are a working cowboy, the lanyard through the the saddle ring could be used to tie the carbine to the D-Ring of your rear (roping) girth of the saddle. Since you typically do not need instantaneous access to the rifle, it kept it out of the way and securely stored until you had to use it as a working tool for snakes, varmints, food, or to put down an injured or sick animal. I have never known a cowpony that I would like to be sitting on while taking a shot at something.

Click to expand...

I've got 3, shot center fires and rimfires from them all for as long as I can remember, down a coyote, rope calves, drag to the fire, haul a deer home, I DON'T subject them to my 300wm, all the colts I train do not get proofed unless for a hunting client, but I'll say this, I'd rather have the gun half slung the first time I fire than try to fight the boot if the .22 spooks em, usually it's an autoloader that clacks more than pops, but the worst one still jumped about 2' to the side the first time, now that they're all getting semi retired it's about time to start proofing another......but I assure you, a pony that can stand next to the branding pot without flinching when it's lit is quite capable of being trained to shoot, and most of mine make half decent bloodhounds too!

You may want to take a look at this thread from a while back:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/saddle-ring-carbine-terminology.777016/
My post from that thread:

1957 Interview of a cowboy in the 1880's

Hi All,

not that this ends the debate about the saddle carbines but I did find the insight interesting. Folks that enjoy cowboy research might find it enjoyable.
http://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/thro1/rickey.pdf

The Rifles and Carbines section starts on page 46 of the pdf. It only briefly mentions the way in which they were carried on the saddle.

it describes in a scabbard, usually on the left side to avoid getting in the way of the rope. The article says that the carrying of a rifle was not all that common.

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I believe that the saddle ring was used by people in a few different ways.

1. the old 1 point sling for military.
While I personally wouldn't want a rifle bouncing around while I am riding, I would prefer it to losing the darn thing.

2. A budget saddle scabbard.
Not everybody rode from place to place with a rifle. Some folks would, on the occasion, need to mosy out to a place and need a rifle, the ring with a leather loop attached provided a fairly secure and convenient means of transporting the thing without a scabbard.

3. One old timer I knew had holes punched in his leather saddle scabbard. Apparently the crew he rode with did the same. They would insert the carbine into the scabbard, then put the leather thong attached to the ring on the carbine through the holes then tie a quick pull knot. Something like a square knot with a loop in it so you could tug it free then pull the rifle.

That method was faster and cheaper than a buckled cover on the scabbard.

X-Rap said:

I remember reading somewhere that the 92 Winchester was used in large numbers by South and Central American military. I suppose that may have been reason for the SR to have shown up on rifles not typical to our own Cavalry.

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Actually these were not Winchesters. They were excellent 92' copies called El Tigre .44-40. They sold for $33 bucks in the 1960s. They sell for $800 now. I should have kept mine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Tigre_(rifle)

The el tigre was used in the Spanish Civil War in Europe.
I did a little googling and couldn't come up with the article I had read on the 92 exports to South America but I did see that it was a favorite and also saw prolific use on rubber plantations down there.

They were issued to Spanish Colonist as well as the military. The El Tigres were so common that .44-40 Ammo was the only currency of exchange on the Amazon Frontier. I had friends working in the Amazon Basin during the 1960s. They could buy a chicken for 3 .44-40 Ctgs. Money would not buy anything.

BTW, I do distinguish between cowponies we used on the ranch vs. those trained (proofed) for shooting that may also do stock work...Nothing like a horse that will shy every now and then to focus your attention on riding.

I do wonder what the "after" picture of the German (or is it Spanish or Argentine?) soldier standing on his saddle looks like...

My grandfather tied a leather thong on to the saddle ring and put the thong over his saddle horn, so that he could carry his rifle across his lap and not worry about it falling.

My Uberti trapdoor carbine has the ring but I wrapped it with a strip of buckskin . Took away the rattle and it looks kinda cool too.