salt&battery
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I read Col. David Hackworths book and he saw so many guys get shot or hit others carrying the 1911 45 that he tried to get the army to look for another pistol
Type of Gun in Florida Doughnut Shop Discharge?
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salt&battery
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do you realize all the negative publicity that comes from ND's?
wally
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No only the ones I actually do carry. They are going to get dinged up anyways, I want that piece of mind. YMMV. Its not practical if you don't reload or know someone who does, although you could pull the bullet from one of your carry rounds and dump the powder for the test.
The other important thing is to train yourself to never try to catch a falling gun (especially if its loaded!) -- amazing how easy it is to catch the trigger and it only takes one ND to ruin your life!
Life is a series of improbabilities starting with that one in a billion of your father's sperm that fertilized your mother's egg.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Man, you know how often I have to stop and try to figure out if you're kidding or serious?
Taking this as serious, so you feel that if you're being beaten to death, you're pretty much just going to have to take it? Because pulling out a gun and stopping someone from beating you to death should be against the rules?
Or is your rule that, you'd better be tough enough to out fist-fight any young bruiser who wants to assault you, because if you can't punch him out you deserve to be killed?
Do you realize how the negative publicity from negative discharges is not my friggin' fault? Only MY actions are my fault.
Do you realize how much I don't want to be killed because I can't get a round in the chamber of the gun I make the effort to carry?
Jim Watson
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Yes, I did drop tests from head height on a vinyl tile floor with a real GI 1911, primed case in the chamber. Various orientations and conditions of readiness. No Pop! The hardest drop left a mark on the primer about like what you get when unloading an AR.
salt&battery
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Sam I believe anyone that shoots a guy over a fist fight should face charges unless the guy being attacked is old and the assailant young. to me learning how to fight is part of being a man. I have witnessed 100's of fights and no one was beaten to death. Sam are you saying the anti's do not try to make a big issue out of a ND?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Fortunately the law doesn't agree with you anywhere.
Learning how to fight is part of being a man? What bull crap. No person -- man, woman, young, or old -- should be subject to taking a beating from an aggressor. The law in no part of America says you have to submit to being assaulted if you aren't physically capable of defending yourself with your fists. The idea itself is offensive.
"There, there Mr. Zimmerman, take your lumps like a man. Wow, that concrete curb he's bashing your head into sure looks HARD. Lights going out? Consciousness fading? Sure sucks to be you."
salt&battery
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so if a guy punches you in an argument over a parking spot you can shoot him and get away with it? are you sure about that?
Ed Ames
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Maybe you should stop arguing over parking spots.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Not quite so. If you get into a fight because you're arguing with some guy and start trading pushes, shoves, and so on, you may be considered a "mutual combatant" and your self-defense claim largely evaporates.
However, if you're NOT trying to fight someone, are not the aggressor, and are attempting to disengage you may use whatever force is necessary to stop the attack. So, depending on a lot of specific factors, if someone jumped on you because you parked in "their" spot and they started beating you and you couldn't get away, and you were in reasonable fear for your life, the law would recognize your right to defend yourself with deadly force.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Further, the law does not recognize a right to fight like a man, or any other way. (Except for sport, in a ring, as willing participants.)
There are no circumstances where you're in the right to square off and duke it out with another guy about anything. Even if you're evenly matched and both are cruising for a fight, you're both guilty of assault. Both breaking the law.
The law recognizes use of violence ("force") for a very few, very specific reasons, and they are almost all some form or another of defending yourself or others. Fist fighting some guy "like a man" because he insulted you or took your parking space or said something rude to your wife, or any other reason that doesn't meet the State's exact wording of justification under the law is simply unlawful violence, i.e. assault.
In other words, if you don't absolutely have to fight to defend life (or whatever the specifics of your state's laws say) doing so just makes you a criminal. And the distance between where you can justifiably use force and when you could justify using deadly force is generally pretty small. When can you use your fists? When you MUST. When can you use your gun? When you MUST and fists won't cut it.
There are no circumstances where you're in the right to square off and duke it out with another guy about anything. Even if you're evenly matched and both are cruising for a fight, you're both guilty of assault. Both breaking the law.
The law recognizes use of violence ("force") for a very few, very specific reasons, and they are almost all some form or another of defending yourself or others. Fist fighting some guy "like a man" because he insulted you or took your parking space or said something rude to your wife, or any other reason that doesn't meet the State's exact wording of justification under the law is simply unlawful violence, i.e. assault.
In other words, if you don't absolutely have to fight to defend life (or whatever the specifics of your state's laws say) doing so just makes you a criminal. And the distance between where you can justifiably use force and when you could justify using deadly force is generally pretty small. When can you use your fists? When you MUST. When can you use your gun? When you MUST and fists won't cut it.
larryh1108
Member
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, in these forums your opinion is in the minority.
Perhaps that’s just as well.
wally
Member
Actually, its the only real information I'd hoped to get from this thread.
Deaf Smith
Member
Zimmerman was having his head bashed into the concrete sidewalk. Google it. Officer Wilson had been punched in the face repeatedly and his assailant charged him. I don't understand your comparison except both had been violently attacked. Chamber empty has nothing to do with self defense any only useful if the weapon is not drop safe. Both guns use by Zimmerman and Wilson were drop safe.
Deaf
9MMare
Member
If I remember correctly, Zimmerman's head was being beaten against the ground. He had no way of knowing that, once he was unconscious, his attacker would stop. The odds were good he'd keep going til he was dead....and if you are unconscious you are completely defenseless. He acted the only way he had available to save his own life. (This is not a character statement for Zimmerman, my opinion of the man is not positive. I'm judging his actions during a specific physical confrontation.)
old lady new shooter
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If you are big, strong, and young enough to work as a bouncer, that's fantastic. Some of us have a gun because we are none of those things and need an equalizer.
old lady new shooter
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I'm a revolver person, but you make a really excellent point here (as usual).
Elm Creek Smith
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I haven't "witnessed 100's of fights," but I've seen the results of someone being beaten to death with bare hands 3 times. In one case the victim was a woman; in the other two cases the assailant and victim were roughly equivalent in age and physical condition. One male victim kept screaming (according to witnesses), "I don't want no trouble!" It was just too damn' bad the other guy did. The other victim was hit by surprise and was never able to mount an effective defense, much like George Zimmerman except Zimmerman had a gun.
I'm 64, a father, a grandfather, a cancer survivor, and I still get up most mornings, put on the uniform and duty belt, and go out "amongst 'em." If threatened with a physical assault, I have the tools that make using a firearm unlikely, but I'm not "fist fight[ing]" anyone. I'll spray 'em, Taser® 'em, beat 'em with a stick, cut them away from my gun if they go for a grab, and, as a final resort, I'll shoot 'em. The closest I've come to a physical altercation in the last five years was with a man in his 70's who was "What are you going to do, shoot me?" about trying to push past me to enter a restricted area. His eyes got big and his tune changed when I drew my Taser®.
bikerdoc
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We are way of track from the original post that was marginal at best. So Im going to ckose thise and give ya'all with good topiccs a chance to start new threads
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