hunting with the 444 marlin

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Have a Marlin .444 guide gun,18.5 ported barrel. Great caliber drops deer and hogs dead in their tracks. I load my own in this caliber,it is very accurate in my experience.
 
Unless you're a reloader, I'd stay clear of that rifle and go with a 45-70, as the ammo is very hard to find. However as far as a hunting round goes it is very effective out to 150 yards or so on deer, and with proper loads on elk.
 
I've moved this to Hunting since it's a hunting question, and so it won't get lost in the mass of threads in GGD.
 
The 444 and the 45-70 are close. When I got my "g" I went with 45-70. More brass available and I can still load it to knock the sense out of you heights. What I really mean is I can load it higher than factory 45-70 loads. 444 is just rarer. So brass of course would be higher. Your choice.
 
I hope to buy a 444 marlin cva would like to know how the round works for the members
Like dh1633pm, I personally would go with a 45-70. I had 444 Marlin for a while. There was nothing wrong with it, it's just that I'm a tinkerer when it comes to handloading, and I bought that 444 with the thought in mind that I could load it with some of my own, cast 300 grain bullets that I use in my .44 Magnum revolvers occasionally. Well, that didn't work out at all - with those 300 grain bullets seated to their crimp grooves, the completed .444 Marlin cartridges were far too long to work my rifle's action.
I sold the rifle, and if ever get another hankerin' for another large bore lever action, I'll get a .45-70 instead.
 
I must go along with the rest of the pack. I too once had a 444 but converted to the 45-70 GG.
The 444 was all that has been said but the 45-70 can really be a hammer if you want and brass is easy to find.
 
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It works pretty well for me.

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One of the easiest cartridges I've loaded for in a handgun. Shot at 200 yards.
 
The 444 is just a 44 mag on steroids. It got a bad reputation early on because it was shooting bullets designed to work at 44 mag handgun speeds. They were over expanding and providing poor penetration. Marlin corrected the issue when they re-introduced the 45-70 which shot much heavier bullets designed for a rifle.

Many, even most of the loads today still use bullets designed for handguns, but the situation is better. There are decent bullets available, but are hard to find. Like others have said I'd pass on 444. Actually I'd pass on 45-70 too. Both of them recoil far out of proportion to their effectiveness on game, especially from a light single shot rifle. A 30-06 or even 308 loaded with much more commonly available bullets will easily out perform either even on the largest game with a fraction of the recoil.

Look at it this way, when the 30-30 was introduced it was considered far more powerful than the 45-70. When the 30-06 was introduced hunters dumped 45-70 in favor of 30-06 and noted a huge improvement on large bear and other large game. The round was considered borderline for anything but deer in its day and was all but obsolete for almost 100 years before being brought back from the dead by Marlin along with colorful advertising.
 
The .444 need not stand in the .45-70's shadow. I have no idea what twist rate the CVA has but with the faster 1-20" twist of the newer Marlins, a 405gr WLN can be pushed to over 2000fps. Effectively rendering it at least on par with the .45-70.


A 30-06 or even 308 loaded with much more commonly available bullets will easily out perform either even on the largest game with a fraction of the recoil.
Sorry but the .45-70 has been used on the largest of African game. The .30-06 need not apply.


Look at it this way, when the 30-30 was introduced it was considered far more powerful than the 45-70. When the 30-06 was introduced hunters dumped 45-70 in favor of 30-06 and noted a huge improvement on large bear and other large game. The round was considered borderline for anything but deer in its day and was all but obsolete for almost 100 years before being brought back from the dead by Marlin along with colorful advertising.
Citation needed. A 500gr at 1300fps was considered "borderline for anything but deer"? You're gonna have to substantiate that nonsense.
 
I'm not going to look it up but the old 45-70 that was superceded by the 30-30 & 30-06 was a pretty anemic load for the Springfield.
Modern loads for Marlin and even hotter for Ruger single shots carry plenty of juice for anything on 4 legs on any continent.
Same comparison goes for the 45 LC.
 
I'm not going to look it up but the old 45-70 that was superceded by the 30-30 & 30-06 was a pretty anemic load for the Springfield.
Modern loads for Marlin and even hotter for Ruger single shots carry plenty of juice for anything on 4 legs on any continent.
Same comparison goes for the 45 LC.
Doesn't matter. All those cartridges gained was range. All modern .45-70 loads gain is range. A 500gr .458" bullet at 1300fps will fully traverse anything on the continent.
 
I'm on board with the 45-70 but I'll take mine with the modern benefits when I want them.
If it means range, velocity or energy I'll take the added benefit of all three on game.
 
I traded my .444 Marlin lever-action to my gunsmith. I was too much of a wuss to handle the recoil. In fact, I still have about 40 factory loads.

Heavy-recoiling guns are not for me and that includes the .45-70.
 
I traded my .444 Marlin lever-action to my gunsmith. I was too much of a wuss to handle the recoil. In fact, I still have about 40 factory loads.

Heavy-recoiling guns are not for me and that includes the .45-70.
Yeppers, I didn't mention it in my previous post in this thread, but you can put me in the "wuss" category too when it comes to handling a .444 Marlin's recoil. I helped a buddy sight in his new .416 Remington Magnum (Model 70 Winchester) a few years back, and I'll tell you what - that .416 Rem Mag hurt me, but it sure as heck didn't hurt me any worse than the lever action .444 Marlin I once owned.
Like I said, if I ever get the hankering for another large bore, lever action, it will be a .45-70. But even at that, I'd load it way down and just use it for a "fun gun."
 
I have no experience with the CVA. But I do own a JM 444S.....and I LOVE it. If you accept the 444 for what it is, it's very enjoyabe. And it's got some serious power. If you don't reload, you'll never know the potential of that cartridge unless you want to spend pretty good money on custom loaded ammo. The 240gr bullet in the 444 is a fine choice. But if you really want to see what she can do, you need to load some 300's.

My hunting load is a 300 Sierra FP over 41 grains of H4198. At 0-150 yards, there isn't anything in NA I would be undergunned for. This is one such bullet I recovered from a 325-350 lb boar I shot earlier this year. He had a 3" grissle plate. Recovered just under the skin after penetrating the "shield", breaking the scapula, 2 ribs, and opposing shoulder. The bullet is sitting on top of a quarter and weighed 289gr. Not to bad in my book.

One suggestion. If you aren't going to shoot irons, get a scope with good eye relief. Only gun to ever "scope" me was that damn 444s that had an old fixed 4X scope. It got a Nikon after the 2nd time it drew blood.
 

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Sorry to make two back to back posts, but the 444 is not a 45-70 (of which I also own and load for). Both the 444 and 45-70 can be loaded to almost pathetically light loads. Both can also be loaded to shoulder bruising, not fun at all to shoot levels. One of the great things about handloading.

As to the 45-70 (which the OP didn't ask about btw), factory ammunition is loaded to trapdoor pressure levels. It has to be because people apparently can't be expected to read labels. But the 45-70, even loaded to trapdoor levels, is still a decently potent round. And in truth, loading to "Ruger only" levels, is purely for those who enjoy self inflicted pain.

Someone mentioned brass earlier. 444 brass is now produced by Starline. So there's no shortage of quality brass. And loading the big bullets to the crimp groove and it giving an OAL that's to long....trim the brass until seating/crimping in the groove gives you the proper OAL. Simple. It's what I did. And my accuracy didn't suffer at all.

If the OP wants a big bore rifle, the 444 is a great choice. But I would suggest he get a box of 265 LeverEver and borrow/rent a 444 before committing money to a purchase.
 
500gr .458" bullet at 1300fps will fully traverse anything on the continent.

I agree on the penetration, but I think bricks have better ballistics than 45/70's. My Trapdoor, sighted in at 200 yards, the bullet is 22" high at 100 yards! In its day, the 30-30's trajectory would have been considered very flat. Plus, it does not kick as much.

I have a 44 Mag M1894, never shot anything but paper and metal targets. Since the 444 Mag pushes them faster, the round ought to be outstanding on all game in the US given good bullets. If the rifle has microgroove rifling I would avoid the thing. None of my microgroove barrels shoot cast bullets worth a hoot and I have to keep the velocities low or the bullets strip out. I have read the microgroove hoopla when these barrels were first introduced and it is a classic case of the real world and advertising being in separate Universes.
 
I am not impressed with any size rifle bullet at 1300 fps. That is pathetically slow. My 458 AR and casull revolver will do that. Mortar like trajectories.
 
I inherited my brother's original 336-444. I bought two boxes of Leverwhatever loads. Wowsie. I'm 72 with four fused vertebrae, RA, and osteoarthritis. I can shoot a 300 bird trap program but like the 1880 cavalrymen, I will dig latrines before I shoot that at the bench again.
I have a 260 grain gc mould, the bullets from which I can run 1800 fs. Good enough for anything Ill ever hunt, and controllable.
Great caliber in the right gun for the right person with the right load.
A fan, with reservations.
 
I am not impressed with any size rifle bullet at 1300 fps. That is pathetically slow. My 458 AR and casull revolver will do that. Mortar like trajectories.
What YOU are impressed with is irrelevant, as is trajectory. Fact remains that at original ballistics, the .45-70 is absolutely NOT "borderline for anything but deer". As I already pointed out, all the smallbores gained was range.
 
What YOU are impressed with is irrelevant, as is trajectory. Fact remains that at original ballistics, the .45-70 is absolutely NOT "borderline for anything but deer". As I already pointed out, all the smallbores gained was range.

My bow kills deer and elk also. It's trajectory is relevant. 1300 fps is a joke in a rifle. Yeah, according to you who cares about range. Only serious hunters.
 
My bow kills deer and elk also. It's trajectory is relevant. 1300 fps is a joke in a rifle. Yeah, according to you who cares about range. Only serious hunters.
You're completely missing the point, just to argue. Did you actually read what I was responding to? Do you agree that a 500gr .458" bullet at 1300fps is "borderline for anything but deer"?

And let's not degrade this into judgements about what constitutes a "serious hunter". :confused:
 
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