Is your safe safe?

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RugerBassMan

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About 4 years ago I moved and hired movers to move my 700 pound gun safe. The movers removed the 200 pound door to lighten their load.

Somewhere or some how the door was either dropped or smashed against something. The combo lock worked but wobbled and scraped. One of the arms on the door handle was slightly bent. The lock worked -- then.

I never got around to filing a claim on the damage (not too smart).

About one month ago I started to have problems - like having to take 3 or more attempts to open. I went online and retrieved -- "S & G Mechanical Lock Trouble Shooting". Yes, I did use the proper dialing technique. Then on the next page - "Most common issues found can be overcome by following one of the techniques below" - they sort of worked. I locked the safe but did not close to door and for a week attempted to unlock the combo. I had a success rate of 85% - and used the "techniques" not good enough!

I called a lock smith (paid talent) and he instructed me to not close & lock the door and asked me to remove the cover on the back of the door. I did and was amazed to find the mechanical parts covered with dry wall dust and large chunks of 5/8 sheet rock resting on the bottom of the inside door and other mechanical moving parts. I sucked up everything with my shop vac then wiped down everything with a soapy paper towel.

The nice lock smith appeared and uncovered the actual inside of the combo lock - it was covered with sheet rock dust and about 1/8 inch of dust was on the bottom of the lock enclosure. The cover was bent and allowed the dust to enter.

The old dial and bent stem was replaced, the cover was straightened, everything was cleaned and now it works.

I am not impressed with touch pad locks - just me - really don't know much about them but would fear heat and possibly EMF effects. When cleaning up the rock mess a small crumb about 1/2 inch per side fell down inside the workings and prevented me from turning the outside handle.

Maintain your safe like your weapons!
 
Good thoughts. I believe my safe is safe. With the added protection of my German Shepherd, Rommel, I sleep quite soundly! :D

opplanet-browning-safes-medallion-standard-m28-gun-safe-60x31x26in-textured-1601100152-main.jpg
 
Thanks for the heads up on moving. I think I'll leave the door on. We moved 700 lbs in so we should be able to move it out the same way.

I'm with you on the touch pads. I like direct mechanical linkage.

I opted for a small Sturdy brand safe. Sturdy takes a different approach and uses ceramic wool and glass sealed between the 4 gauge wall and 16 gauge steel liner. Good to know the construction eliminates one potential problem.
 
I was leery about the digital lock, one safe has the digital lock, one the old dial type thing, the last a key. I have not had any issues with the digital lock, and only replaced the battery 1 time in about 15 years....so far so good.
 
Going on-line to see what it would take to defeat a key pad lock I saw a video of the safe being drilled, then the insides being checked out with some type of medical optic, then two connectors being inserted, then a current applied. Additional viewing showed the inside of the safe where the circuit board was bypassed and the two wires leading to the solenoid were exposed, the solenoid was activated and moved the relock thingy allowing the safe to be opened.

Looking at my Browning safe I noticed that a 3/8 or 5/16 steel plate was between the lock and outer steel shell. A file would not touch this plate so I guess it would be an effort to drill into the lock and then manipulate it using the optic. I never cracked a safe and never plan to but upon buying one I think it is worthy to know something about how they work.

Our kitchen stove that heats up to 400 degrees for 25 minutes to cook a pizza is comfortable to touch and my thoughts are that the stove insulating stuff should be used in gun safes vs. the messy sheet rock stuff that I have been messing around with for years since I quit working (retired).
 
The front parts of gun safes are the least vulnerable. The sides, top and back can be breeched in short order with a grinder and thin cutting wheel.
Bolt your safe down and position it against concrete walls and framing.
 
Like X-Rap stated a cheap $10 arbor freight angle grinder and 15 mins on the side of most "safes" and they're in. The sides and back are usually just 14 gauge steel and drywall.
 
Check the upgrades on the Sturdy safes. The basic unit has 3/16 " walls and 5/16" door with 3/16" formed channels as frame behind the door. The heavy duty versions start with 4 gauge (just short of 1/4") walls and 3/8" door and then various options on adding either more layers of steel or stainless steel. The stainless steel is to slow access with a torch.

2419aloneopen_large.jpg


Units with fire layers have a liner of 16 gauge steel liner. Should slow access enough to let the LEOs respond to an alarm.
 
Going on-line to see what it would take to defeat a key pad lock I saw a video of the safe being drilled, then the insides being checked out with some type of medical optic, then two connectors being inserted, then a current applied. Additional viewing showed the inside of the safe where the circuit board was bypassed and the two wires leading to the solenoid were exposed, the solenoid was activated and moved the relock thingy allowing the safe to be opened...

Smart guns can be defeated in the same way. Just put wires straight to the solenoid and bypass the "smart".
 
About 4 years ago I moved and hired movers to move my 700 pound gun safe. The movers removed the 200 pound door to lighten their load.

Somewhere or some how the door was either dropped or smashed against something. The combo lock worked but wobbled and scraped. One of the arms on the door handle was slightly bent. The lock worked -- then.

I never got around to filing a claim on the damage (not too smart).

About one month ago I started to have problems - like having to take 3 or more attempts to open. I went online and retrieved -- "S & G Mechanical Lock Trouble Shooting". Yes, I did use the proper dialing technique. Then on the next page - "Most common issues found can be overcome by following one of the techniques below" - they sort of worked. I locked the safe but did not close to door and for a week attempted to unlock the combo. I had a success rate of 85% - and used the "techniques" not good enough!

I called a lock smith (paid talent) and he instructed me to not close & lock the door and asked me to remove the cover on the back of the door. I did and was amazed to find the mechanical parts covered with dry wall dust and large chunks of 5/8 sheet rock resting on the bottom of the inside door and other mechanical moving parts. I sucked up everything with my shop vac then wiped down everything with a soapy paper towel.

The nice lock smith appeared and uncovered the actual inside of the combo lock - it was covered with sheet rock dust and about 1/8 inch of dust was on the bottom of the lock enclosure. The cover was bent and allowed the dust to enter.

The old dial and bent stem was replaced, the cover was straightened, everything was cleaned and now it works.

I am not impressed with touch pad locks - just me - really don't know much about them but would fear heat and possibly EMF effects. When cleaning up the rock mess a small crumb about 1/2 inch per side fell down inside the workings and prevented me from turning the outside handle.

Maintain your safe like your weapons!

Good post. I feel your pain. I'm in the military, and I've had to use the lowest bidder movers for my 600 pound gun safe about 5 times in the last 8 years. Most movers, unless you have a real professional bunch with the right equipment and training, just beat up your safe while moving it.

Still, I believe strongly in using a safe to secure valuables. Any safe can be defeated with enough time and tools on hand, but my goal (as already described here) is to delay IOT defeat attempts to break in. Since I live in an apartment on the top floor, the amount of noise they would need to get into it would likely mean zero success.
 
Fella's;

Speaking as a former professional in the field, any outfit that wants to remove the door of a 700 lb. safe in order to move it is amateur. I've loaded, moved, unloaded, and installed a 1225 lb. unit by myself in the past. May not have been the smartest thing I ever did, but neither did I damage the safe, the house it went into, or myself. Before you hire anybody to do that job, if they don't want to inspect it first, be suspicious and ask questions. If they fob you off, go elsewhere. The best elsewhere is an ALOA/SAVTA certified locksmith. SAVTA means Safe And Vault Technician's Assn., people so certified have both the knowledge and the tools to do the job without the kind of problems the O.P. had.

900F
 
My pain is past but now I worry about angle grinders. I have one and it buzzes right through re-bar and remnants of steel guard rail sticking out of concrete. Unfortunately, the safe had to be moved up a full flight of stairs including a 180 turn with a landing.
 
About 4 years ago I moved and hired movers to move my 700 pound gun safe. The movers removed the 200 pound door to lighten their load.

Somewhere or some how the door was either dropped or smashed against something. The combo lock worked but wobbled and scraped. One of the arms on the door handle was slightly bent. The lock worked -- then.

I never got around to filing a claim on the damage (not too smart).

About one month ago I started to have problems - like having to take 3 or more attempts to open. I went online and retrieved -- "S & G Mechanical Lock Trouble Shooting". Yes, I did use the proper dialing technique. Then on the next page - "Most common issues found can be overcome by following one of the techniques below" - they sort of worked. I locked the safe but did not close to door and for a week attempted to unlock the combo. I had a success rate of 85% - and used the "techniques" not good enough!

I called a lock smith (paid talent) and he instructed me to not close & lock the door and asked me to remove the cover on the back of the door. I did and was amazed to find the mechanical parts covered with dry wall dust and large chunks of 5/8 sheet rock resting on the bottom of the inside door and other mechanical moving parts. I sucked up everything with my shop vac then wiped down everything with a soapy paper towel.

The nice lock smith appeared and uncovered the actual inside of the combo lock - it was covered with sheet rock dust and about 1/8 inch of dust was on the bottom of the lock enclosure. The cover was bent and allowed the dust to enter.

The old dial and bent stem was replaced, the cover was straightened, everything was cleaned and now it works.

I am not impressed with touch pad locks - just me - really don't know much about them but would fear heat and possibly EMF effects. When cleaning up the rock mess a small crumb about 1/2 inch per side fell down inside the workings and prevented me from turning the outside handle.

Maintain your safe like your weapons!

I was having a similar issue with my vault door and also thought I was miss-dialing. It was getting worse so I started reading the trouble-shooting guides. Finally decided to try and different combination and after changing it (I) went back to 100%. I figure in a few more years I'll have a locksmith out for a tune-up.

Chuck
 
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