Should we expect a drop in quality from now on?

Meh, quality has been on the down slope since they stopped turning out pieces like this:

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2012/06/english-fowler-by-jim-filipski.html

I think we should expect an increase in utility and with the exception of custom stuff the disappearance of traditional fitted, blued and nice wood examples.

If quality relates to reliability I don't expect to see a drop in reliability. But they will get uglier every day.

All bets are off when you venture into very high end stuff but it will come at a cost.

I wouldn't read too much into that.

Gander Mountain has massive basic business problems. They are generally the high price leader by a wild margin, shot themselves in the foot selling off their mail order business right when online retail was taking off, and they really don't bring anything to the table as far as consumer value. They are competing against much better run businesses and they just aren't as good.

I have no doubt that local gun stores will close. New stores will open too. Business owners retire just like anyone, and often they really aren't the best judges of future trends. Example: three or so years ago several of the old gun stores in this area either shut down or scaled back operations. This was at a time when gun sales were setting year after year records and people couldn't keep inventory in stock. Why did they die? Talking to the employees, they said the owners thought the market was going to crash and were trying to cash out or limit their risk. They misjudged, left a pile of cash on the table.for others to take, and a flock of new stores opened up just after they closed, mostly staffed by ex-employees of the old stores. Will the new stores all survive? Probably not all of them, but I would bet that if you measure over the next 30 years there will be a net increase in stores.

I have an idea, start massive lobbying and convince public opinion in Europe for less strict gun laws (right to self defense, right to live, freedom of a people, hunting sport, recreational shooting...) to sell more there and make sure your industry continues improving... European firearm constructors will compete and innovation will thrive.

Dog Soldier said:

Production has changed and been accepted. I don't think in the days of machined steel and hard wood many of these new guns would have sold. We are buying castings, sheet metal and molded plastic firearms. today.

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Naw, I still buy the old tried and true stuff. The only new production firearm I have purchased was a CZ .22 rifle last year. I just can't warm up to the newer production stuff.

Saw your reference to the old LSI (Lear Siegler). I briefly worked their power equipment division during the early 80s. They were a good company to work for with excellent benefits. The train wreck began in October of 1986, Forstmann Little & Company (part of F.L. Industries), a New York investment partnership, launched a leveraged buyout of LSI. Forstmann’s offer of $92 per share, or $2.1 billion, was better than AFG by $7 per share and was only $1 less per share than Wickes’ offer. Forstmann’s advantage over its competitors, however, was its ability to obtain financing and not because its bid was the highest. The funds came from cash pre-committed by institutional investors. Eventually my division was bought by Lucas Aerospace, the same Lucas known as the prince of darkness in euro automotive. I had a sinking feeling and knew I had a boarding pass on the Titanic. I bailed and ended up where I retired from with a pension, those who remained lost everything. S&W as well as Piper Aircraft proved to be liabilities.

Ron

Thanks Ron. I am sure we could share some interesting history.

I see that most people in this thread perceive the term "quality" only from an utilitarian point of view. Which is OK as long as they don't refuse to acknowledge other aspects of it. For example, blued finishes were referred to as "bespoke"?!? I'm sorry, but to consider a simple hot tank bluing a bespoke job is ridiculous. Yes, I understand that blued finishes have shortcomings, but I know how to care for them. And I know when they are appropriate and when not, but to scratch them out all together simply because nitrocarburizing does some jobs better and therefore must be the higher quality finish is one dimensional thinking. To put it this way - just because trainer shoes, or baggy combat trousers are good for the gym, or in the field does not mean that you will see me wearing them in the city. Sport jacket, chinos and leather shoes for me, please! After all, I'm not 16 anymore and I DO care how I look. This does not mean that I consider one to be of higher quality than the other, only that I recognize the specific use of the said items.

Wooden stocks - since when a plain machine made walnut stock became a "luxury item"? Sure, a polymer stock is more rugged and less demanding in terms of maintenance, but some of us DO prefer wood. Same with stamped Vs. machined parts - they both do the exact same job, but some of us still prefer a good, properly made machined part. Just because. To say that guns of the past were less accurate, more prone to stoppages and etc. is incorrect generalization at it's best. There were lemons then, there are lemons now - I will just mention Remington R51 & RP9...

I understand cost cutting, people demanding more for less money, but when you see an "upgraded" model firearm with stamped sheet metal parts, machining marks everywhere, plastic instead of steel and etc. and at the same time costing more compared to the yesteryear model, leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. It all comes down to aesthetics. When I see a well finished gun with proper tolerances and of a good design - not only engineering, but looks as well it pleases my eyes. And please don't try to convince me that only the plastic-fantastic guns are worth it, because I've seen my fair share of modern engineering marvels choke and brake in every imaginable way and at the same time the outdated steel & wood guns just keep on ticking.

"Quality" means several things to me - it's not only utilitarian use, but finishing, proper tolerances, attention for details, craftsmanship and aesthetically pleasing. And one last word - a true good modern benchrest rifle is as bespoke as you can get and at the same time made with the most modern tooling and parts available. And, much to my surprise, with no stamped, cast or whatever cost-cutting-state-of-the-art parts... But yes, quality (REAL quality) comes with a price.

the quality of guns cannot go down unless the quality of people owning the companies go down. guns do not make themselves. the quality of people going down is the problem

''They also had Wolf steel cased ammo for slightly less, at $12.50 for a box of 20''



if that's the case, i wouldn't trust their prices on much of anything, let alone use them as a universal comparison. that same Wolf ammo can be had from any number of online vendors at under 21 cents a round, which is 4.20 per box of 20. considering your local shop is selling it at 3 times that amount, their prices should be viewed with extreme skepticism, IMO

12Pump said:

I've considered buying online for that reason, but then the shipping cost brings the total cost right back up to what I'd be paying locally--unless maybe I were to buy several thousand rounds at a time. If I just want 20 or 100, it seems I'm out of luck. I'd sure hate to buy thousands of rounds only to find out that it doesn't like my rifle.

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you can buy one or two boxes in a store to try first before getting a case

sgammo.com has pretty reasonable shipping rates, and excellent prices on most common ammo