Point Shooting

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strambo said:
It seems like it is viable as Deaf says at 3 yds and horizontal displacement is not a huge issue. That said, any group size larger than what I have here would not be acceptable to me, so this would be my personal limit. I'm pretty practiced at the position as well.
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But go farther. Practice it over time and see if you can extend it to 5 yards. That way you can use retention to 5, sighted fire from 3 on out. Yes an overlap. That way if you really need some speed, you can still hit 'em real fast from the retention position.

I use a AACK .22 unit for my Glock 26 for all my hip and retention shooting practice. Do lots with the .22 and then swap slides and mags for 9mm practice.

Anyway, I found years ago if you shoot buckets of ammo practicing hip shooting you could do some real amazing stuff. Catch is, you have to keep shooting buckets of ammo to keep that skill sharp!

Deaf
 
Deaf Smith said:
But go farther. Practice it over time and see if you can extend it to 5 yards. That way you can use retention to 5, sighted fire from 3 on out. Yes an overlap. That way if you really need some speed, you can still hit 'em real fast from the retention position.

I use a AACK .22 unit for my Glock 26 for all my hip and retention shooting practice. Do lots with the .22 and then swap slides and mags for 9mm practice.

Anyway, I found years ago if you shoot buckets of ammo practicing hip shooting you could do some real amazing stuff. Catch is, you have to keep shooting buckets of ammo to keep that skill sharp!

Deaf
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It is a myth that it takes tons of time and buckets of ammo to become proficient in hip shooting.
With proper instruction it can be learned in a matter of minutes.
PS-- my avatar is a photo of my 93 year old dad, who was in Darby's Rangers.
 
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When I was in the army they taught us to use just the front sight post for instinctive aim. I use this method with my pistols as well. It works well. More accurate than just firing with no aiming at all, and alot faster than fully aiming. U literally just put the front sight on target like u normally would and just dont worry about the rear. Some folks tend to shoot a little high but u just adjust where u put the front sight post on target. If all else fails just hold that badboy sideways, grab your junk, and fire away!
 
One question-- at what range does retention shooting feel unnatural?
I ask because any technique is a matter of time and distance and each one has it's ideal application.
Nor is this difficult to put into practice because the proper technique will almost choose itself.
 
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Joshboyfutre said:
When I was in the army they taught us to use just the front sight post for instinctive aim. I use this method with my pistols as well. It works well. More accurate than just firing with no aiming at all, and alot faster than fully aiming. U literally just put the front sight on target like u normally would and just dont worry about the rear. Some folks tend to shoot a little high but u just adjust where u put the front sight post on target. If all else fails just hold that badboy sideways, grab your junk, and fire away!
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The Army still teaches that but they also teach reflexive fire, which is firing the rifle from the shoulder but with no use of the sights -- or even a cheek weld--whatsoever.
 
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Matthew Temkin said:
One question-- at what range does retention shooting feel unnatural?
I ask because any technique is a matter of time and distance and each one has it's ideal application.
Nor is this difficult to put into practice because the proper technique will almost choose itself.
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Probably it depends on the barrel length. As Bill Jordan stated in his book, "No Second Place Winner", a snub feels like one is pointing their fist at the target and the longer the barrel the more one can feel where the gun is pointing.

That and individual skill level will determine just how far out one can shoot and it still feels natural.

I do know my Glock 17 is far easier to hit with from retention or hip shooting than my S&W 642 .38 or Ruger LCP .380!

Deaf
 
Our main disagreement is that you do not see the need for any methods to fill the gap between retention ( Which I define as having the gun hand pressed against the shooters rib cage or in the #2 position) and full extension.
You feel that any other position ( mainly half and 3/4 hip) take too much time to learn and are of limited value.
I disagree.
In fact these positions are almost instinctive which is why they are so easy to learn and retain.
Quite frankly I see no need to extend retention shooting out to 5 yards when there are more natural/ practical /accurate methods which can be employed since a gun grab is much less likely as the distance increases.
In other words retention shooting is the least accurate of any other position and should only be used when the bad guy is so close that any other technique would be suicidal.
 
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No Matt, I feel one CAN pair it down to a basic minimum of two techniques. This is useful for organizations and people who have limited budgets and time to practice. It simplifies training and speeds up one's response one has to make in a confrontation.

Others who have more time, more money, and more of an interest in shooting (you and me!) can, and should, learn many techniques.

Deaf
 
Deaf Smith said:
No Matt, I feel one CAN pair it down to a basic minimum of two techniques. This is useful for organizations and people who have limited budgets and time to practice. It simplifies training and speeds up one's response one has to make in a confrontation.

Others who have more time, more money, and more of an interest in shooting (you and me!) can, and should, learn many techniques.

Deaf
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Well, I agree.
Sort of.
When teaching the 47 hour NY armed guard class I only taught one and two handed aimed fire/point shooting from full extension as well as retention shooting which included dealing with a grappling situation when your gun was already drawn.
I never taught half and 3/4 hip due to time and safety limitations ( grappling/ retention was done only with red and Airsoft) but I did notice most of the students would flow into both methods during role playing.
 
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