Handguns are more convenient for home defense vs Rifles and Shotguns?
- Thread starter gulogulo1970
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bikemutt
Member
We're in an apartment for the next two months, I keep a S&W Governor with 410 Critical Defense bedside. I know it's not the best but I really don't want to risk overpenetration through drywall. When we're at the house it's a Sig 1911 .45 ACP.
Without writing a book on the Art & Practice Of Home Defense, I'll just add that most people never actually work a building with a shotgun or carbine & have no idea of the dynamics involved.
Both are relatively heavy & don't swing as fast as a handgun.
This can be an issue in reacting to sudden activity at angles other than straight ahead.
Both are harder to use one-handed.
You may not realize it, but the off hand IS occasionally needed for other things, like opening doors (room & closet), moving things out of the way, working a light independently of the gun, picking up items & people, etc. Along with the possibility of an injured hand.
And that's just "working the space" as you go along.
Both are typically harder to fire well one-handed, too.
Both can be more vulnerable to a grab.
Entering rooms, leaving rooms, handling tight corners, can all involve sticking the barrel out farther than a handgun, most especially if you don't know how to do it right, and most people don't.
This can be aggravated by longer barrel lengths.
Even if you do know how to do it right, it's still not as efficient as a handgun worked correctly.
I tried clearing houses with both a 16-inch AR & an 18-inch 870 years ago, and years ago, after noticing how awkward & clumsy they both were in that role, I left both behind in the company car for indoor activities.
The Safe Room is a great concept.
Calling the cops is a great concept.
But, neither is universally practical in all situations.
If I hear an odd "outa-place" sound at 2AM, or our "watchcat" growls at the bedroom window from her night-time position next to us (which she has been known to do late at night when we're going to bed), it's hardly realistic to barricade ourselves in a safe room & call for deputies to respond from miles away on what might just be a coyote in the back yard.
There are times like that where I'll check out the house myself.
At such times, it's a handgun, because that's what works best for me.
If I hear glass breaking or a door being kicked in, sure- dig in & call for LE, if practical.
If not, handle it.
Everybody makes their own choices, mine are based on VERY extensive experience in working through buildings ranging from large warehouses to small homes.
I know how to take doors, I know how to take corners, I know how to maximize retention & minimize take-away risks.
ALL of that is much easier & simpler with a handgun, if & when a late-night walkabout's indicated.
Denis
Both are relatively heavy & don't swing as fast as a handgun.
This can be an issue in reacting to sudden activity at angles other than straight ahead.
Both are harder to use one-handed.
You may not realize it, but the off hand IS occasionally needed for other things, like opening doors (room & closet), moving things out of the way, working a light independently of the gun, picking up items & people, etc. Along with the possibility of an injured hand.
And that's just "working the space" as you go along.
Both are typically harder to fire well one-handed, too.
Both can be more vulnerable to a grab.
Entering rooms, leaving rooms, handling tight corners, can all involve sticking the barrel out farther than a handgun, most especially if you don't know how to do it right, and most people don't.
This can be aggravated by longer barrel lengths.
Even if you do know how to do it right, it's still not as efficient as a handgun worked correctly.
I tried clearing houses with both a 16-inch AR & an 18-inch 870 years ago, and years ago, after noticing how awkward & clumsy they both were in that role, I left both behind in the company car for indoor activities.
The Safe Room is a great concept.
Calling the cops is a great concept.
But, neither is universally practical in all situations.
If I hear an odd "outa-place" sound at 2AM, or our "watchcat" growls at the bedroom window from her night-time position next to us (which she has been known to do late at night when we're going to bed), it's hardly realistic to barricade ourselves in a safe room & call for deputies to respond from miles away on what might just be a coyote in the back yard.
There are times like that where I'll check out the house myself.
At such times, it's a handgun, because that's what works best for me.
If I hear glass breaking or a door being kicked in, sure- dig in & call for LE, if practical.
If not, handle it.
Everybody makes their own choices, mine are based on VERY extensive experience in working through buildings ranging from large warehouses to small homes.
I know how to take doors, I know how to take corners, I know how to maximize retention & minimize take-away risks.
ALL of that is much easier & simpler with a handgun, if & when a late-night walkabout's indicated.
Denis
Bike,
Your chosen load will penetrate drywall very easily. If it didn't, it'd be largely useless against an attacker, in terms of terminal ballistics.
Years ago I built a dummy section of wall to test less-lethal ammunition.
Rubber "buckshot" easily sailed right on through. Same with beanbags.
Even with the diminished velocities of .410 ammo through that Judge, don't count on your load to stop traveling once it hits drywall.
Denis
Your chosen load will penetrate drywall very easily. If it didn't, it'd be largely useless against an attacker, in terms of terminal ballistics.
Years ago I built a dummy section of wall to test less-lethal ammunition.
Rubber "buckshot" easily sailed right on through. Same with beanbags.
Even with the diminished velocities of .410 ammo through that Judge, don't count on your load to stop traveling once it hits drywall.
Denis
bikemutt
Member
This apartment it fairly new, we never hear our neighbors through the walls. Two layers of drywall and good insulation. Maybe if it does make it through it would be less lethal than more. I've too shot at dummy drywall and plywood with the Governor and this load, it didn't look anything like the hollow point slugs did.
JohnBiltz
Member
I have cats so a bump in the night is going to be investigated with a hand gun because generally its just my cats checking that gravity still works. My home is always lighted. Some 40 watt equivalent LED lights cost next to nothing to leave on all the time and set in a few well thought out places provide adequate illumination.
The only non lighted area is my bed room. If I hear my security door go then its one step to my bedroom closet where there is an AR and I placed filled book cases in front of it for cover. There is where I'm going to be make my stand. Beside the rifle is a bag with spare magazines and a flashlight to toss out of my bedroom if my other lights have gone out. I prefer to be fighting concealed by darkness in cover with a long gun with the enemy coming out of the light.
The only non lighted area is my bed room. If I hear my security door go then its one step to my bedroom closet where there is an AR and I placed filled book cases in front of it for cover. There is where I'm going to be make my stand. Beside the rifle is a bag with spare magazines and a flashlight to toss out of my bedroom if my other lights have gone out. I prefer to be fighting concealed by darkness in cover with a long gun with the enemy coming out of the light.
Zaydok Allen
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In general I agree with this notion, but like all blanket statements, there are exceptions.
22250Rem
Member
Normally no kids here anymore so there's a 4" S&W 686 stoked with 7 rounds of +P rated handloads in 38 Spl. brass, with another 7 in a speedloader; usually sitting in a small. padded zip-up case that doesn't look like a gun case. Usually someplace where it could be accessed quickly and leaving it unzipped I can just reach in and retrieve it. If the grandkids come over it just goes into the safe. Have a lot of raccoon, possum, skunk, fox, etc, traffic right outside in the wee hours but they hardly ever make any noise and there's a couple trail cams outside to prove it or else I'd hardly ever know they were right outside my bedroom window. Only big deal we had was almost 10 years ago when a small black bear took up residence in the woods next to the house. He eventually got trapped and relocated but for awhile I had my .30-30 with the magazine full on "standby" duty just in case.
tark
Member
Easier to answer the door with a pistol in hand rather than a rifle or shotgun.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Both, for me. A 9mm pistol is my de facto primary because it is my EDC and close at hand, with a 16" Tavor for anything with a three or four seconds' warning, including sheltering in place and calling 911.
The nice thing about a Tavor or similar short, rearward-balanced carbine is that they are a lot handier to wield in confined spaces than more typical carbines, and can be wielded reasonably effectively one-handed (with either hand) temporarily when opening doors or leading a child to safety just as a pistol can be. You generally can't use a weapon light while shooting a long gun one-handed, though, so keep that in mind.
The nice thing about a Tavor or similar short, rearward-balanced carbine is that they are a lot handier to wield in confined spaces than more typical carbines, and can be wielded reasonably effectively one-handed (with either hand) temporarily when opening doors or leading a child to safety just as a pistol can be. You generally can't use a weapon light while shooting a long gun one-handed, though, so keep that in mind.
My preferred HD gun has varied over time: When I was a new shooter it was a shotgun; when I became highly familiar with an M4 it was an AR. When I lived it in a rural area in bear country I went back to the 12 gauge and devoted practice to slug changeovers.
My current situation is living in a smal house with narrow doorways. I've gone back to the handgun - a Glock 19 with a WML and 23 rounds on board. This allows me to discreetly see who's at the door, or investigate a bump in the night when I'm 99% sure it's the cats with a flashlight in one hand and the gun in the other. I can open doors, dial a phone, or move with my wife. And importantly, it's the platform she is most comfortable with in case I'm not home or otherwise unable to get to it.
My current situation is living in a smal house with narrow doorways. I've gone back to the handgun - a Glock 19 with a WML and 23 rounds on board. This allows me to discreetly see who's at the door, or investigate a bump in the night when I'm 99% sure it's the cats with a flashlight in one hand and the gun in the other. I can open doors, dial a phone, or move with my wife. And importantly, it's the platform she is most comfortable with in case I'm not home or otherwise unable to get to it.
Deanimator
Member
In MY home a long gun is about as useful as a bamboo cavalry lance or a naginata.
Anything bigger than an MP5k without stock is a non-starter. I'd be hard pressed to get through my bedroom door without banging into something. And I have not the slightest intention of calling the cops every time I hear a noise in the living room.
I have long guns. For home defense, I rely on handguns.
Anything bigger than an MP5k without stock is a non-starter. I'd be hard pressed to get through my bedroom door without banging into something. And I have not the slightest intention of calling the cops every time I hear a noise in the living room.
I have long guns. For home defense, I rely on handguns.
huntsman
Member
I don't believe in a dedicated HD gun, the only two guns that reside outside the safe are my CC guns. The plan is to use said guns to get to the safe room and to the gun safe for the long guns.
bassjam
Member
When I lived alone I had 2 guns in my bedroom, an 870 with an 18" smoothbore slug barrel loaded with buckshot, and a full sized handgun. Now that there's a wife and kids in the house, the shotgun is in the main safe, along with an AR and several loaded mags "just in case".
But my main defense is a few full sized handguns placed in handgun safes throughout the house. I make sure to keep flashlights in each safe as well; I've noticed any flashlight left out where the kids and wife can get it always has dead batteries by the time I need it.
But my main defense is a few full sized handguns placed in handgun safes throughout the house. I make sure to keep flashlights in each safe as well; I've noticed any flashlight left out where the kids and wife can get it always has dead batteries by the time I need it.
Schwing
Member
Length and unwieldiness aside, I agree with others that the blast from an AR or shotgun is going to be mighty ear-splitting in an enclosed space. Sure, you might be able to grab a set of ears but, you might not. It isn't just your own hearing you need to worry about. I have small children in the house as well. I know they are not going to be wearing ear protection.
I generally keep either a 9mm or .45 close at hand and realize that we are going to very likely STILL have some hearing damage if I have to use them. One of these days, I would like to get something with a suppressor on it to mitigate it further (even though I realize you are back to adding length and unwieldiness to it again).
I keep a loaded AR and Shotgun in the safe in the event of something big hitting the fan.
I generally keep either a 9mm or .45 close at hand and realize that we are going to very likely STILL have some hearing damage if I have to use them. One of these days, I would like to get something with a suppressor on it to mitigate it further (even though I realize you are back to adding length and unwieldiness to it again).
I keep a loaded AR and Shotgun in the safe in the event of something big hitting the fan.
GBExpat
Member
I have a Peltor Tactical 6S backup headset that "lives" beside my bed for just that reason (in addition to the increased/improved hearing that it provides) ... but I, too, look forward to the day when I can talk myself into the cost of a suppressor so that don't have to put on the Ears.
I think that there are a LOT of us hoping for legislation that will eliminate the $200 tax stamp (which should help reduce the rarity & cost) for such things, making them much more common & affordable.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Handguns are my primary choice for inside the home defense. Long guns are the choice if I am hunkered down in one location.
OP
OP
gulogulo1970
Member
Well I'm glad I'm not alone. It's just when you read any kind of enthusiast type forum you always are steered towards the "ultimate" in whatever. I guess the choice you make is always a calculated compromise. Rifles and shotguns are great in the power and aiming department but just not as handy as handguns.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
4" barreled 9mm, 18" barreled 12-gauge, and 16" .223 are all very close in terms of peak dBA, assuming none of them have brakes (aka sound multipliers). Remember that loudness is as correlated with barrel length as it is with caliber and velocity.
My preferred choice for house defense is always an AR (currently suppressed), either as a carbine, or a pistol with an arm brace. This was true even when we lived in a motor home. My second choice is a handgun. Which one I choose depends on the situation.
I have no desire to use a shotgun. The shortest shotgun is longer than my AR carbine, has at most 25% the ammo capacity, kicks harder, is less precise and for me isn't as much fun to practice with.
I don't find an AR to be less handy than a handgun. Turning around in a narrow hall isn't any slower with an AR. I shoot ARs better than I shoot handguns. It's easier to mount an optic, sling and light on an AR. I can hold an AR with one hand long enough to open doors and so on and it's even easier with a two point sling.
I don't care what you shoot indoors, you put your hearing at risk. It's already determined that if you're gonna survive a gunfight inside your house, there will be hearing damage. An AR has a better chance at keeping the fight as short as possible than a handgun.
As far as NOT mounting a light on your firearm- I think that's a bad idea. If you need a handheld light (which is a good idea), get a second light.
Having one person light up the bad guy from one direction while having another shooting from another direction sounds like a good tactic, but realize that if the bad guy is gonna shoot, he's gonna shoot in the direction of the light source. That person better have the ability to shoot first and that means they'd better be lighting up the bad guy with a weapon mounted light.
Even better is to light up the bad guy from two different directions and be able to shoot from either direction as well
I have no desire to use a shotgun. The shortest shotgun is longer than my AR carbine, has at most 25% the ammo capacity, kicks harder, is less precise and for me isn't as much fun to practice with.
I don't find an AR to be less handy than a handgun. Turning around in a narrow hall isn't any slower with an AR. I shoot ARs better than I shoot handguns. It's easier to mount an optic, sling and light on an AR. I can hold an AR with one hand long enough to open doors and so on and it's even easier with a two point sling.
I don't care what you shoot indoors, you put your hearing at risk. It's already determined that if you're gonna survive a gunfight inside your house, there will be hearing damage. An AR has a better chance at keeping the fight as short as possible than a handgun.
As far as NOT mounting a light on your firearm- I think that's a bad idea. If you need a handheld light (which is a good idea), get a second light.
Having one person light up the bad guy from one direction while having another shooting from another direction sounds like a good tactic, but realize that if the bad guy is gonna shoot, he's gonna shoot in the direction of the light source. That person better have the ability to shoot first and that means they'd better be lighting up the bad guy with a weapon mounted light.
Even better is to light up the bad guy from two different directions and be able to shoot from either direction as well
I found the AR to be substantially inferior in dynamics vs a handgun, no matter how it's used, sling or not.
It is much less reactive in tight spots, can't be fired as easily one-handed, can't be maneuvered as easily one-handed.
For me, there was no comparison, and my choice was based on hard reality in live situations where I either knew there was somebody hostile somewhere inside a building, or there was a strong probability. That frequently required the off hand to be used for other purposes, and there was a wide range of tight corners & spaces where long guns just could not compete with the handgun in utility.
I had no preference starting out & no bias toward anything simply because I "liked it", or someone thought a shotgun or AR was a more effective choice.
I can't work tight spaces & corners anywhere near as well with longer guns, I can't maneuver a longer gun with one hand as quickly or as dynamically as I can a handgun, I can't shoot a long gun with one hand as quickly or as well with one hand as I can a handgun, I can't operate a long gun from odd angles as easily or as quickly, I can't run a light independently off the gun anywhere near as well.
Long guns are cumbersome & ungainly.
The longer guns are very simply less efficient in real life, for me, and that's the bottom line.
Denis
It is much less reactive in tight spots, can't be fired as easily one-handed, can't be maneuvered as easily one-handed.
For me, there was no comparison, and my choice was based on hard reality in live situations where I either knew there was somebody hostile somewhere inside a building, or there was a strong probability. That frequently required the off hand to be used for other purposes, and there was a wide range of tight corners & spaces where long guns just could not compete with the handgun in utility.
I had no preference starting out & no bias toward anything simply because I "liked it", or someone thought a shotgun or AR was a more effective choice.
I can't work tight spaces & corners anywhere near as well with longer guns, I can't maneuver a longer gun with one hand as quickly or as dynamically as I can a handgun, I can't shoot a long gun with one hand as quickly or as well with one hand as I can a handgun, I can't operate a long gun from odd angles as easily or as quickly, I can't run a light independently off the gun anywhere near as well.
Long guns are cumbersome & ungainly.
The longer guns are very simply less efficient in real life, for me, and that's the bottom line.
Denis
Yes.
A S&W J-Frame .38 Special revolver that I inherited from my grandmother. It is loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs. From a firing stance at the entrance to my bedroom, there is liable to be a sleeping, relaxing or playing human being on the other side of two half-inch pieces of drywall as the backdrop to every shot so no ARs, no Shotguns.
MTMilitiaman
Member
Pistol gets nod if I am investigating an unknown noise or possible threat. If I know there is an intruder in my house or am facing a known threat, I turn to a carbine or shotgun. The Glock 20 has a decent amount of firepower for a handgun, but it still lacks the decisiveness of a long gun.
Hanzo581
Member
Small house with lots of tight angles, no way a long gun would work, so it's a pistol with light for me while on the move.
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