Out of State Long Gun Purchase

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TaxPhd

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I am having a bit of a disagreement with a licensed firearms dealer, and I am hoping to tap into the expertise of the High road experts.

He claims it is illegal for a non resident to buy a long gun from a dealer in another state, and immediately take possession (basically a cash and carry deal).

I am pretty sure that I know the answer, and I believe that FOPA 1986 made it legal to purchase long guns from a dealer in a different state, but not handguns or "other" (bare receivers). This is Federal law only, I know that some states don't allow this.

So, who is correct in their understanding of the law? Me or him?
 
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That's an odd assertion for a licensed dealer to make, but if he's adamant then he has every right to refuse to sell to you. Take your money elsewhere, as kanook said. Or, if it's a gotta-have-it situation, just do a dealer transfer to your local FFL as he wants.
 
TaxPhd said:
So, who is correct in their understanding of the law? Me or him?
Click to expand...

You are, unless he's in a state that requires a waiting period to purchase firearms. You're nowhere near any of those states though so I can't imagine that's the issue.
 
Some FFLs I've used in the past just get nervous if you are a first-time user and they don't know you. I wonder if that could be the issue, or he really just doesn't know the regulatory guidance?
 
In addition to Federal law there are state laws on guns and gun dealers. I have been made aware that the TN/VA border area has some special rules, state not federal. We do have gun stores in Tennessee that advertise that they can sell to residents of Virginia, FFL to purchaser. FFL to FFL transfers to Tennessee though can run up to $65. The gun would have to be really nice or very rare to justify that kind of surcharge on my budget.
Downloaded 31 Mar 2017 from ATF.GOV:
May an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA in any State?
Generally, a person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State. Exceptions include the acquisition pursuant to a lawful bequest, or an over–the–counter acquisition of a rifle or shotgun from a licensee where the transaction is allowed by the purchaser’s State of residence and the licensee’s State of business. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]
Last Reviewed September 23, 2016.
Problem appears (to me) to be some dealers do not want to try to keep up with all the state laws because one legal hassle can cost more than one lost sale.
 
I am not buying from him, this is simply an academic discussion, and he is quite insistent that he is right.
And the discussion is only about Federal law. I know that some states are different.

He further claims that FFL's can lose their license for releasing firearms to people not resident in their state of business, by Federal Law (again, the discussion is about long guns, not handguns or bare receivers).

He also made the following claim:

The short answer is that buying a firearm (and that includes rifles and shotguns) from an FFL in a state you're non-resident is either going to result in you being denied by the FFL, or being guilty of an interstate firearms felony. You cannot legally cash and carry in a non-resident state and haven't been for a significant period certainly longer than I've been interested in 2nd Amendment issue, I suspect back to the 1968 GCA which ushered in the 4473.
Click to expand...
 
In my experience, FFL's usually are no more knowledgeable about Federal firearms laws than any other random gun owner on the street. They're often more adamant that their incorrect opinion is correct, even when shown evidence proving otherwise. I would say that, generally speaking, they're actually less knowledgeable than many of the regular posters on this forum. This, of course, is a generalization and there are exceptions. The guy you're talking to is straight up wrong. No if, ands or buts about it.
 
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Sam1911 said:
You now have the info and citations you need to exactly refute his incorrect statement. This should be a cut-and-dried case. Show him the ATF's web page: https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...ed-person-acquire-firearm-under-gca-any-state
Click to expand...
And I'll add the following full rundown:

The law has been in effect for over 45 years. It was enacted by the Gun Control Act of 1968.

  • Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  • In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  • In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  • There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  • The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  • Here's what the statutes say:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ...
    Click to expand...
​
 
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