Help deciding on a concealed carry gun.

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Carry guns ? I have 4 different ones that I carry , a Sig P 238 in 380 , a Ruger LCR 357 that i carry loaded with warm 38 spcl wad cutters , a Charter Arms Pit Bull in 45 ACP ,and a ATI Titan also in 45 ACP . The ones I carry most because of lighter weight and conceal ability are the P238 and the LCR .just drop one in your pocket and your good to go. I have no intention of ever getting in a gun fight. I carry to cover my escape .
 
Carry guns ? I have 4 different ones that I carry , a Sig P 238 in 380 , a Ruger LCR 357 that i carry loaded with warm 38 spcl wad cutters , a Charter Arms Pit Bull in 45 ACP ,and a ATI Titan also in 45 ACP . The ones I carry most because of lighter weight and conceal ability are the P238 and the LCR .just drop one in your pocket and your good to go. I have no intention of ever getting in a gun fight. I carry to cover my escape .
If you don't ever want to get in a gun fight, I'm curious how a handgun is going to help "cover my escape"? I am not throwing rocks at you, but would like to know your thinking and what scenario you have mentally worked thru to come to this conclusion. Perhaps it's a scenario I have not considered.

War story time:

When I was a police officer, my mother in law wanted me to buy her a gun because she had twice been burglarized in her Bakersfield, CA home and was fearful of another burglary when she may be at home. I commended her for her willingness to not be a victim and told her I would buy her an appropriate handgun and take her to the range to train her in the use of a firearm for self protection. When I mentioned that we would be spending some time at the range shooting, she told me that was not necessary as she didn't need any bullets. What? She said she could never shoot anybody and would just use the empty gun to "scare em"! That quickly ended our discussion. My willingness to buy her a handgun went to absolute zero.

I tell this story because in reading the very numerous posts on buying a girlfriend, wife, friend, whomever, a handgun, it seems the discussion often centers on what kind and what caliber of firearm, when the first point in the process should be a discussion of the persons willingness to kill another human being, regardless the reason. Typically, women are far less likely to assume a killing mentality or posture with a firearm than are men, especially us "gun guys". In reading the posts, perhaps that step has been taken by some and it's now time to buy and train with the gun, but I suspect that is frequently not the case. And I am not necessarily singling out women, but that was the subject of the thread, so my comments are relative to that thread. That said, ANYBODY that carries a firearm should make a determination as to what point he/she is willing to drop the hammer on somebody. Is it to protect yourself or your family from a life threatening situation? Would you use the same rational to stop an armed robbery at a retail business where you are just a customer and happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time? What if you observe a man beating a woman in the parking lot, or in a parked car? Once you draw your gun in an attempt to stop the action, you have set events in motion that you have little or no control of. Regardless of how unlawful/threatening the actions of the bad guy are, you have then put yourself in a position where you may have to take deadly action if the situation escalates and your threats are ignored by the bad guy. Having a uniformed police officer drawing a bead on the bad guy and yelling commands is far different than a private citizen in street clothes doing the same thing. You may not be perceived as much of a threat by the bad guy, even with your gun in hand and authoritatively yelling commands. Moreover, once you have taken action, even if no shots were fired when the cops arrive, the mere fact of somebody being armed creates a very high caution call for the cops, and on their arrival you're very likely going to be laying face down with your arms spread out and put in handcuffs. Your weapon will absolutely be in police custody until a determination is made on how lawful you actions were, which, depending on what state you're in and other arbitrary factors, may or may not be returned to you. If there is ANY amount of uncertainty, you're probably going for a ride in the back seat. A report will then be taken and the DA will determine if any charges are appropriate. The DA is NOT your friend and would love to file charges on you for a case that he/she feels they could easily win. You see yourself as a good citizen for stopping a crime. Their viewpoint is very likely far different. This is especially true in our current society where gun owners are demonized on a very regular basis on TV news and in the newspapers. Our media and education system have created a large segment of our society that live in absolute fear of guns and, often, of gun owners who are perceived as screw balls that want to kill things. Again, your results may vary depending on the state where you live. But, if you're in California, NY or perhaps Oregon or Washington, you're likely very screwed if you're not on extremely firm ground as a result of your actions taken.

I am a gun guy (should be obvious by being on this site) and extremely pro 2A and I carry. But, I was a cop for many years and have somewhat of an understanding of the "system" and offer these comments for whatever they are worth to the reader.
 
All I can comment on is the PPS:

  • For its size, it's heavy (compared to similarly-sized 9mm single-stacks), but not enough to matter to me. Its profile makes it highly concealable. In an IWB, it disappears under a T-shirt. Personally I like the slightly-added heft. To be clear it's not heavy in the least - just heavier than some similar models.
  • Mag choices give you 8+1 rounds max (7+1 with what you get in the box), but mags are very expensive, and factory is pretty much the only game in town. Expect to pay $40+ per mag.
  • The pistol itself is highly accurate from a mechanical perspective. But the very heavy, gritty trigger makes practical accuracy more difficult. Still a good shooter, but you need to put some time in to get used to the trigger, and if you have weak hands/fingers, I would stay away from it for this reason alone. This trigger is NOT the awesome trigger of the PPQ. You can definitely eek out impressive accuracy from this handgun, but you have to put in the work. Unfortunately, there are no trigger upgrade options as with Glock - not nearly as much aftermarket support - and as long as the PPS has been out, I would be surprised if that changed in the near future.
  • I love the ergos of the PPS M2, but wish it was offered in an M1 configuration regarding the trigger release (I LOVE the trigger-guard release). But many (most?) American shooters would disagree here, so the PPS M2 is likely pure win for most folks.
  • 100% reliability at ~1500 rounds from ours so far - mostly fmj target but at least a few hundred mixed defensive rounds in the mix as well. Not a single malfunction
It may or may not be the one for you, but I'd definitely keep in on the short list of guns to try before you buy.
Excellent comments on the PPS! It's my carry gun that I bought for myself and my son in law for Christmas. I like it. As with ANY firearm, train, train, train with rounds down range.
 
In NY I can take no action unless it's to protect my life or the life of a family member . Until the actual shooting starts , you can't even draw your weapon. to do so would make me subject to arrest and revocation of my license to possess a handgun.it would probably result in the confiscation of all my firearms ,long guns included.


 
I had a XDS in .45ACP. I liked it, but found it more difficult to do follow-up shots due to recoil. If you want a .45 ACP, you may want to go with a bigger pistol where a longer barrel can get you some more velocity and tame recoil. The XDS in 9mm may work well too.

I have different carry guns for different situations. 'Mouse guns' (like my Ruger LCP II) can be great if your clothing options are limited. In general, I would only suggest a mouse gun if the person is an experienced shooter and can hit reliably with the firearm at 7-10 yrds.

It looks like you're going for a single stack, and the Walther and S&W are good options (I don't like S&W personally but plenty of people do and they are a quality manufacturer), along with the XDS. You could also consider the Glock 42/43 as well.

In general, as long as it's made by a quality manufacturer (Ruger, Glock, Sig, Kahr, S&W, CZ, etc) you should be alright. I'd go with what fits your hand well and what you can hit with, regardless of the roll mark on the slide.
 
All 3 are fine choices, but I would pick the shield 9 mm. I would prefer it for weight (45 ammo weighs more than 9mm) and less expense to practice with- not to mention that the 9mm would be much more easy to control on smaller pistols. I've never used the Walther, but a LE friend carries one off duty and swears by it.
 
I've recently switched to a Colt Gunsite Pistol. It's an alloy-framed 1911 with an Officer's length grip and a Commander length barrel. 7-round Wilson mags make it an 8-shot .45ACP pistol. I had carried a LW Commander years ago...this is an improvement that I really like, because of the slightly shorter grip that conceals a little better. If you can't find one, consider a LW Commander in .45ACP...with an 8-rd mag it's a 9-shot pistol. Having used a 1911 for more than 45 years, I'm very comfortable with an external safety and "cocked and locked" carry. I would not necessarily recommend a 1911 to someone who had never used one as using a thumb safety is not an easily-developed reflex. I also think a defense pistol should have a heavier trigger pull like most striker-fired pistols do...fine motor control is usually compromised under severe stress. My 1911s are a bit light and crisp...having trained with them, I'm ok, but an inexperienced owner may find their first shot may be premature as a result.

I have an XDs in 9mm and have used it as a summer weight/dress EDC...it is a fine choice in that role, having shot >700 rounds without a hiccup. I use the short mag with a Pearce grip extender that gives me good purchase with my pinky but allows maximum concealability, and carry at least one spare 9-round mag in a pocket. I like the XD grip angle as it is virtually the same as that of the 1911. I may switch to the Colt Gunsite Pistol this summer as as an alternative...TBD.

Good luck, and I hope these thoughts are helpful,

Harry
 
There may be exceptions, but I would (and do) adjust my clothing to fit my carrying need, not vice versa. This is in line with my belief that gun consistency (same type of gun, at least) is important in avoiding fumbles. I can't swim, so I don't worry about what to pack while wearing a bikini, and there are few places where a light untucked shirt will be unsuitable or noticeable.

Jim
 
I love j-frames and Sig P238s but currently my favorite small 9mm is the Sig P290rs. The original P290 was buggy and Sig put way too high an MSRP on it but the redesigned 290rs with a more competitive price for a polymer-framed single stack is IMO a superb CCW or backup. Good build quality. Great accuracy. Small dimensions. It is heavy for size but has little recoil. The DAO trigger is not light and is long, much like a good DA revolver but it is easy to master, in my view. It is a hammer-fired DAO so is quite safe especially for appendix carry since some don't relish cocked strikers and light triggers pointing at their private parts. Very under-rated pistol in my opinion.
 
I have a xds 9x19 and I like it, but I'm not fan of the trigger on any striker fired pistols I have tried. When I dry fired a S&W shield I noticed a considerable jump of the sight picture?


I agree, they work, but I've never fired a striker-trigger based gun that made me say "ooo, sweet!" ;)
Every Shield I've fired or dry fired had a jerky release and a LOT of over travel. Those two things cause the jump in my observation, it gets less bad as it breaks in and you can overcome it with a very firm grip, to an extent. Of all the polymer single stack 9s, I do best with the Shield in spite of the marginal in my grade book trigger. Probably because it feels best of all the different options, to me.

But I still shoot my little S&W 642 better :neener: . Much cleaner break and little over travel.
 
I couldn't shoot my shield well for the same reason: no matter how carefully or smoothly I tried, the front sight would jerk as the shot broke. Apex trigger and DCAEK with OEM spring cured it. Nice trigger now.

I have shot quite a bit the shield, PF9, Glock 43, PF-9, Bodyguard .38 which I liked quite a bit, and various j frame .38s and .357s, and
I sill feel the Kahr PM9 is the top pocketable carry gun. Amazing little pistol. Their .380 is amazing also.
 
Yeah, mine has gotten better (my mom's was the same way), it has smoothed out and the striker release itself isn't as rough, but the over travel is still the biggest issue. It has about 3x the over travel distance of my J Frame 642. I do shoot the Shield pretty well, better than any other small semi auto - but I am still more consistent and accurate with the 642.

So did you noticed less over travel with the Apex kit? That is my biggest gripe with the Shield. No amount of dry / live firing can fix that particular issue.

I thought about an Apex kit for my SD9VE, thinking it would result in a smoother less spongy pull but everyone I spoke to said it just made it lighter - well, I don't care about the weight personally, actually I prefer some manliness to my triggers :p, so I left my SD9VE stock and it has gotten quite a bit better over time.

Thanks!
 
The LCR 357 using 38spl +p as a pocket carry is a good choice. When you do find what you want, you can always use it as a backup. It's my primary carry, I'm looking for a backup at some point. Look for 16oz or less.
 
With a well made jacketed hollow point, the differences between defensive calibers is negligible. 9mm and up in autoloaders, .38spl in revolvers and up are all good choices.

So it comes down to personal factors. Find several that fit your hands. Then choose the largest handgun you can conceal in the largest caliber you can shoot well. This will vary from person to person depending on circumstance. For me, it's a 1911 in .45acp. For some it's a "pocket nine". A few people manage .44 wheelguns. It depends on your build, your hands, your wardrobe.
 
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