It Doesn't Take Many Idiots To Ruin It For The Rest Of Us

There was a range owned by the county police association on electric company right of way land. It was in a suburban neighborhood, had been there for decades, and was open to the public. Pistols and .22 rifles only. Some idiots starting shooting at over head wire insulators, and lofting shots over the backstops into the surrounding neighborhood.

I probably don't have to tell you what the end result was.

I have a place out in the county I have been shooting at since I started back in 88. You pull as far off on the shoulder as you can, walk down the embankment, and go about 50' to a big flat rock about 110 yards long backed up by a mile of woods. Very few times was it left all junked up over the years, and it never stays that way long. Either I or someone comes along and hauls crap outta there. Mostly the only thing laying around to pick up is brass.

This place is free, but there is nothing there. You have to bring a table, chairs, targets, stands, whatever you need. I was just there Monday and they are clearing the woods across the street from it and I'm not a happy camper right now. If they stick a subdivision in there I might cry, a lot.

There is a TWRA range not far from me that I have used infrequently and it is nice. It is $8 for 2 hours, they give you targets if you don't have any, and have 2-5 RO's on hand at any given time. There are around 30 pistol bays, bout that many rifle and shotgun, and they have an archery range too. Real nice covered facilities, restrooms, vending machines, and never a mess. All brass gets swept up between strings, and they don't mind if I ask other shooters if they are keeping their brass to reload. Looks like this will be my new fun spot fri-sun and I don't know what I'll do the other days.

"they are clearing the woods across the street from it"

Think they'll regret it when their saws get nicked or broken.

I avoid people on general principle, and have pretty much decided I do not want to procreate and add another face to the crap fest we call humanity. I'm glad when I meet a decent person, but am content to spend the majority of my time alone. That includes when shooting guns.

I shoot in the woods on public property, but I always pick up my brass and targets. I never intentionally damage public property. And I pick up trash others leave behind. I feel your pain.

People = Crap Fest

Interesting. Our free public range has it's share of idiot damage, including holes shot in the tin roof on the 300 yard line, plus holes in all the fabric covers on the other 4 bays, but it isn't a pit. The city comes out and picks up garbage every morning, unlocks the gate and leaves, to come back at sundown to lock it back up. Yes, there's steel and aluminum cases, but someone is picking them up, too, probably for the scrap value. I have seen people do stupid things on paid supervised ranges as well - the one I worked at had a guy come in to shoot rifle, (we allowed 22lr only in rifle), and was asked if it was a 22. He said yes went out on the line, and left 8 NICE craters in our backstop with his Ruger Mini-14, in .223 He kinda forgot that last number. I lost count of the target holders and lines we had to replace, to the point that shooters were getting charged before they left. I recognize the restrictions of a free unmonitored range, and use it when most people don't, like afternoon on a HOT day during the week. I will have the whole place to myself.
As for wildcat ranges, quit doing that years ago, sucked so bad to see the desert ruined by slobs and jerks.

KansasSasquatch said:

Get some tarps. Even on hot days brass doesn't get hot enough to burn/melt through tarps. They aren't guaranteed to catch all of the brass but they're easy to roll up and dump into a bucket. Or sweep into a bucket if you have people shooting mass quantities.

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Great idea and Harbor Freight has coupons for free ones quite a bit.
Guess I now have a reason to get some extra free tarp!

Want to see a bunch of idiots? Just go to any public indoor range especially on a Saturday. I could make a list of the crap these people can pull but it would take too much band width.

It comes down to a lack of respect IMO. For other people, property, the natural beauty of many places in our country. It's not limited to ranges although that was the example given by the OP. There's a beautiful overlook of the ocean near where we live. Many people stop their cars there to enjoy the view. Then they dump their ashtrays out and leave their fast food garbage and coffee cups behind. Myself and others do pick up after them, but it seems there are more slobs than not. Didn't mean to get off topic.

Putting up with "joe bubba" trashing a wildcat range is what freedom is all about. The alternative is being a registered user of a range with fees and then being charged extra for every infraction of the rules.

I have seen indoor and outdoor ranges which were highly supervised and yet there is still damage to the facilities due to unsafe handling of firearms - by professionals who were the #1 user of the range. We can complain about folks leaving appliances or trash at a wildcat range but the reality is there are always a lot of stray bullet holes at a supervised one, too. And those supervised ranges took a lot of time and upkeep to stay clean, much of it by assigning the days shooters to get down on their hands and knees to dig brass out of the grass for turn in.

I suppose the better solution concerning the cleanup of brass would be to outlaw it? Shoot only steel case, then a large magnet would clean up. They are quite common, available at most lumber yards for roofing crews. Then there would be none left behind - excepting who is going to pick it up? We are now back to paying wages, if you won't, then who else?

And yet those who shoot with brass catchers on their weapons are considered weird. Seems we as a shooting community want to have our cake and eat it, too.

460Shooter said:

I avoid people on general principle, and have pretty much decided I do not want to procreate and add another face to the crap fest we call humanity. I'm glad when I meet a decent person, but am content to spend the majority of my time alone. That includes when shooting guns.

I shoot in the woods on public property, but I always pick up my brass and targets. I never intentionally damage public property. And I pick up trash others leave behind. I feel your pain.

People = Crap Fest

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You and I are kindred spirits!

I too avoid shooting with the general public. Not only are so many others out there slobs, but they are also dangerous. I'm lucky to have a pretty elaborate and safe range setup on my son's 80 acres. Still have to cleanup after myself tho. Still have to clean-up after those neighboring slobs that know when we're not there and they come over to shoot and leave their trash behind. Caught a few on trail cams we have set out and even when confronted with the evidence, they deny being there and attempt to make us the "jerks". These are the same folks that at the same time, whine about the local DNR land now being closed to recreational target shooting. Seems to be the norm anymore.

As with anything in life, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Folks are to eager to whine, but are not prone to doing anything about it. If you hunt public land for free, fell obligated to pickup the trash you find instead of just whining. While I don't shoot there anymore, I am still a member of the local sportsman club and spent yesterday helping with their "spring cleanup day". Replacing/repairing gunshot damaged equipment/backstops and picking up garbage, not only on the club grounds, but in the neighboring woods that belongs to someone else. After being a member there for almost half a century, I feel I need to give something back. Does that slob that brought his household garbage out and left it for the critters to tear apart in the parking lot appreciate us picking it up? I doubt it, he just expects it. Still, members like clean grounds that they can be proud of. For most of us, so goes for public land hunting grounds and free ranges. We like to see them clean and get upset when we see them trashed. Seems once the trash starts, it just seems to multiply. Keep it clean and it tends not to accumulate as fast. Reporting vandalism to the appropriate authorities may seem like a pain, but it does help keep them informed as to when and where things happen and thus may prevent it in the future.

Are we ever gonna eliminate all the slobs out there? Nope, but by being positive role models to young shooters and hunters and teaching them proper ethics and manners goes a lot farther than whining. Setting an example to those around us and our peers can and does influence them. If those of us wanting to be the solution do our part, the problem, while not going away will be much less.

Wait until someone gets hurt and its shut down forever,then the idiots will cry and complain that they have nowhere to shoot.

buck460XVR said:

I too avoid shooting with the general public. Not only are so many others out there slobs, but they are also dangerous.

Are we ever gonna eliminate all the slobs out there? Nope, but by being positive role models to young shooters and hunters and teaching them proper ethics and manners goes a lot farther than whining. Setting an example to those around us and our peers can and does influence them. If those of us wanting to be the solution do our part, the problem, while not going away will be much less.

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I agree with your entire post, but the quoted portions above are my main reasons for joining a paid membership, private club. I've shot on three public ranges, and one of them I swore I would never return to, I felt at risk of my life from basic safety violations and the amount of trash made it akin to shooting at a landfill. The other two ranges had RSO presence, and were strict about picking up brass and limiting what was allowed at the firing lines.

There is another conversation on this forum (or maybe another, I can't readily find it now) where someone mentioned not thinking it necessary or desirable to join a private club, and "pretense" and "snobbery" were used in the reasoning. I've yet to see either one at the club I joined, but consideration for property, common courtesy, and strict firearm safety procedures are readily visible. There have been a few instances over the last couple of years of vandalism with firearms (sign shooting), and improper targets (glass bottles), but perpetrators who were discovered are no longer permitted, memberships revoked permanently.

I've always subscribed to the old fashion idea of leaving any place I visit in as good, or better condition than I found it. After living the last two and a half years in a large apartment complex, it's become abundantly clear that the values instilled in me are no longer being taught, nor learned.

I'm so happy now that we've moved to our own home (this weekend) but, I'm about to learn what public shooting is all about. It will take a while to get a membership at any private ranges. I hope to be surprised and discover that this area, new to me, holds onto basic standards of respect for the land and those who follow, we shall see.

Yeah, I do cleanup at the local range. It is a pleasant, simple location. And I go there and there are casings all over the place, boards shot up and left behind, occasionally cans etc..... signs all over the place say to clean up and shoot only paper targets, but can these few morons read. No. And so I have to run around every Sunday morning like some people's moms cleaning the place up.

My mother is laughing her you-know-what off in the next world as she watches me clean up and complain about the mess.

Anyway, I just can’t understand why some people are so obnoxious.

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Because kids are taught that as a person they are more important than the community of "us" and further they shouldn't be held to any standards because that's being judgmental and their actions must surely be caused by some influence outside of their control.

.308 Norma said:

Since we've lived here, the mail boxes up and down the road we live on get "baseball batted" about once every four years.

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I found a resident on a county road near me with a great sense of humor, in regards to mailbox baseball...

Tirod said:

Putting up with "joe bubba" trashing a wildcat range is what freedom is all about. The alternative is being a registered user of a range with fees and then being charged extra for every infraction of the rules.

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That's bull manure. Like it or not there are unsupervised ranges that don't get trashed for two huge reasons. First some communities simply won't tolerate such behavior. Culture, tradition and peer pressure, rather than law enforcement play huge parts here. Second, some communities are largely devoid of the garbage individuals that tends to trash unsupervised ranges, due once more to culture and tradition.

Just try trashing a public shooting range in Switzerland for instance.

Tirod said:

And yet those who shoot with brass catchers on their weapons are considered weird. Seems we as a shooting community want to have our cake and eat it, too.

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Not around here.

For decades we used to have a free shooting space on county-owned property (it was finally closed due to a proliferation of hikers and new hiking trails.) For decades it remained clean. Sure, there were plenty of broken clays, some .22RF casings and a limited number of shotgun shell casings and that was it.

People in the local community weren't jerks. One day I was at the range as a kid with my Dad and others. A car pulled up pulling a dilapidated trailer which held a huge old time television and an old washer and dryer set. Four guys were in the car and it was clear they weren't from around here for a number of reasons. Several people told them to stop once it became clear they were going to unload the garbage and use it as targets.

This took place during pre-cell-phone days so a sheriff's deputy couldn't easily be called. These guys had driven at least 30 miles to shoot up this junk. Finally they were told to leave and they did. Someone recorded their license plate ID and called the sheriff's office when they got home. This place closed in 1989 I believe and it never got trashed to my knowledge.

460Shooter said:

I avoid people on general principle, and have pretty much decided I do not want to procreate and add another face to the crap fest we call humanity. I'm glad when I meet a decent person, but am content to spend the majority of my time alone. That includes when shooting guns.

I shoot in the woods on public property, but I always pick up my brass and targets. I never intentionally damage public property. And I pick up trash others leave behind. I feel your pain.

People = Crap Fest

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That's really sad to hear. Among the greatest joys of life is to have kids and to be surrounded by good people who are in no way part of any "crap fest." As a member of humanity, my apologies to you for what you have experienced.

Solomonson said:

That's really sad to hear. Among the greatest joys of life is to have kids and to be surrounded by good people who are in no way part of any "crap fest." As a member of humanity, my apologies to you for what you have experienced.

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There's nothing sad about it really, I've been a bit of a loner ever since I was a child, and have never had a strong urge to procreate.

I haven't met a woman I'm interested in marrying until just recently, and frankly we are a little old to start a family now. My kids would be entering college when I'm ready to retire.

There's more to it but this is way off target for THR. I'll PM you the rest.

So back to the topic at hand, don't wreck our public ranges, and when you see a mess made, please help clean it up and maybe ask the mess creator to help.

460Shooter said:

There's nothing sad about it really, I've been a bit of a loner ever since I was a child, and have never had a strong urge to procreate.

I haven't met a woman I'm interested in marrying until just recently, and frankly we are a little old to start a family now. My kids would be entering college when I'm ready to retire.

There's more to it but this is way off target for THR. I'll PM you the rest.

So back to the topic at hand, don't wreck our public ranges, and when you see a mess made, please help clean it up and maybe ask the mess creator to help.

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Back to your original posting:

460Shooter said:

I avoid people on general principle, and have pretty much decided I do not want to procreate and add another face to the crap fest we call humanity. I'm glad when I meet a decent person, but am content to spend the majority of my time alone. That includes when shooting guns.

I shoot in the woods on public property, but I always pick up my brass and targets. I never intentionally damage public property. And I pick up trash others leave behind. I feel your pain.

People = Crap Fest

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Equating people to a "crap fest" is indeed a very sad view to hold. I'm not sure what "I avoid people on general principle" means exactly, but it too sounds rather sad.

Solomonson said:

Equating people to a "crap fest" is indeed a very sad view to hold. I'm not sure what "I avoid people on general principle" means exactly, but it too sounds rather sad.

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Oh please. Some people have greater or lesser social needs than others. Nothing "sad" about it.

And drop the pretense, you started this thread about "idiots".

Solomonson said:

That's really sad to hear. Among the greatest joys of life is to have kids and to be surrounded by good people who are in no way part of any "crap fest." As a member of humanity, my apologies to you for what you have experienced.

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Not everybody was meant to have kids either. Nor does everyone think it's the be-all, end-all of human existence.

The range I go to has a small membership fee, and despite it being only $50/year or so that seems to be enough to keep out most of the idiots, at least compared to the free one the county runs. Every now and then I'll find a bunch of cases lying around or some shot up cans and I'll just sweep them up. "Leave it cleaner than you found it" applies to ranges as much as it does hiking trails, IMO.

Speedo66 said:

There was a range owned by the county police association on electric company right of way land. It was in a suburban neighborhood, had been there for decades, and was open to the public. Pistols and .22 rifles only. Some idiots starting shooting at over head wire insulators, and lofting shots over the backstops into the surrounding neighborhood.

I probably don't have to tell you what the end result was.

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As someone that works in the power industry, I hope there's a special circle of hell for people that shoot insulators.

As someone that isn't a psychopath, I hope there's a special circle of hell for people that knowingly shoot into a neighborhood.

460Shooter said:

I avoid people on general principle, and have pretty much decided I do not want to procreate and add another face to the crap fest we call humanity. I'm glad when I meet a decent person, but am content to spend the majority of my time alone. That includes when shooting guns.

I shoot in the woods on public property, but I always pick up my brass and targets. I never intentionally damage public property. And I pick up trash others leave behind. I feel your pain.

People = Crap Fest

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You're not alone in wanting to be alone- I almost always shoot alone. I actively try to go to the range when I know it'll be empty. Not only is it safer that way (I've had gun accidentally pointed at me before by someone being absent minded, and it's not a good feeling), but you get to do whatever you want at your own pace, with nobody wanting to run downrange to check their target every 30 seconds or anything annoying like that.