Gauging interest in a compact .300 BLK Bullpup 'Rifle'

What Chamberings and Barrel Lengths are you interested in possibly seeing for this?


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Is that a rear mag release with an AR mag? Have you held a buttstock with that shape - any printed or even wooden mock up - against your shoulder? Definitely not something I want to shoulder, and certainly wouldn't be convenient in body armour. Vents over the breech and wide open sides for ejection ports? Seems great for clearing feed issues, but what happens in an out of battery fire event? What protects the shooter?
 
Is that a rear mag release with an AR mag?
No different from front releases on the pre-X95 Tavor and Kel-Tec RDB, just in the rear instead of front. You are right in the rest of your critique -- just one more thing to snag.
 
I'm curious as the the mechanics of a rear mag release on an AR mag. Last I checked the holes for that are on the side of the mag; you'll need an uneccessarily complex device to accomplish that, or divert from standard GI mags. Oh, then there's the either/or release. Even more complexity. You're asking for critique, you're getting it. BTW, aside from all the Nerfesque CAD blocking, your design looks amazingly like the Bushmaster ARM, a design which drew a small amount of interest, then disappeared into the dustbin of history. Just sayin.....

I still think a TRW LMR revamp at a $200 price point would be far more accepted.
 
No different from front releases on the pre-X95 Tavor and Kel-Tec RDB, just in the rear instead of front. You are right in the rest of your critique -- just one more thing to snag.

Lots of rifles have rear mag releases, doesn't mean doing so with an AR mag bullpup of modern design makes sense. Failing to learn from mistakes is the biggest mistake to be made.
 
If we're playing make-believe, bullpup style, here's a few thoughts - capitalize upon an abundant supply of AR-15 components. Barrels, bolts, gas systems, etc, as much as possible. A guy would be ahead to make the manual of arms as AR common as possible as well. This gives you access to an already abundant manufacturing base, as well as plays a critical advantage for market appeal. Since you're marketing towards fighting men and women, and not to sportsman, focus on making sure it is body armour compatible - in which case a 30rnd AR mag at the rear can be problematic. Consider these things in your ergonomics.

I remember some of the rifles, handguns, and guns, as well as munitions I designed when I was fresh out of engineering school- I also remember how they all seemed like revolutionary ideas to disrupt an entire market, but then I fast forward to understanding manufacturing and marketing realities... Product development is a dangerous game - it's far too easy for folks to become emotionally invested in THEIR product, such they continue to fish for years and years (and dollars and dollars) when they should have cut bait far sooner. Sometimes it's really, really difficult to accept the reality of having a really great answer to a question not enough people are asking.
 
Lots of questions...
The NERF gun proportions won't work; there is too little room behind the magwell for a proper bolt carrier, unless you are doing a very novel lateral moving block system.


I'm going to adjust proportions and strech the rear a little, but I do have a design that should prevent needing lots of space.

It's nice that you've got a CAD drawing of the exterior, but what does the action look like?

Honestly I'd love to show you, but my legal department does not want me to post any internals because it could create issues when it comes time to patent. Sorry.

I'm curious as the the mechanics of a rear mag release on an AR mag. Last I checked the holes for that are on the side of the mag; you'll need an uneccessarily complex device to accomplish that, or divert from standard GI mags. Oh, then there's the either/or release. Even more complexity. You're asking for critique, you're getting it.

Is that a rear mag release with an AR mag? Have you held a buttstock with that shape - any printed or even wooden mock up - against your shoulder? Definitely not something I want to shoulder, and certainly wouldn't be convenient in body armour. Vents over the breech and wide open sides for ejection ports? Seems great for clearing feed issues, but what happens in an out of battery fire event? What protects the shooter?

Yes, it is a rear mag release on an AR mag. If you want an idea of how it works, it's somewhat similar to how the G3 can use BOTH a paddle AND a button. The internals are not very complex and unlike the F2000 it can take any standard mag, ie USGI, Pmag, Emag, Lancer AWM, etc.

I have held the buttstock in that shape, and I will change it; It's awful without armor and worse with it. First though I need to finish the internals so I can mold the buttpad around that. Another thing I'm going to do that was heavily requested on the F2000 is put a metal shield in the butt so if it blows up it doesn't destroy your face.

As far an the ejection ports go, I haven't finished the design for the bolt or BCG yet, and they're not shown in that image. Rest assured, it will be a closed, locked rotating bolt.

If we're playing make-believe, bullpup style, here's a few thoughts - capitalize upon an abundant supply of AR-15 components. Barrels, bolts, gas systems, etc, as much as possible. A guy would be ahead to make the manual of arms as AR common as possible as well. This gives you access to an already abundant manufacturing base, as well as plays a critical advantage for market appeal. Since you're marketing towards fighting men and women, and not to sportsman, focus on making sure it is body armour compatible - in which case a 30rnd AR mag at the rear can be problematic. Consider these things in your ergonomics.

I remember some of the rifles, handguns, and guns, as well as munitions I designed when I was fresh out of engineering school- I also remember how they all seemed like revolutionary ideas to disrupt an entire market, but then I fast forward to understanding manufacturing and marketing realities... Product development is a dangerous game - it's far too easy for folks to become emotionally invested in THEIR product, such they continue to fish for years and years (and dollars and dollars) when they should have cut bait far sooner. Sometimes it's really, really difficult to accept the reality of having a really great answer to a question not enough people are asking.

The gas system will actually be a carry-over from one of my other products, which is designed to work with standard mil-spec AR parts. The barrel I will probably try to make AR and the pistol grip is already AR.

The dual mag release system is so if someone it already familiar with a bullpup like the AUG, F2000 or the TAR-21, they can do that. Alternatively, if they've used an AK, grabbing the mag and the release is just like grabbing the paddle on the AK, it's just it's behind the trigger. If you're transitioning from an AR or a MTAR / X95, that mag release button will stay the same too.

The 30 rounder at the back was something I WAS worried about, but after testing in a mockup, even a 40 rounder doesn't get in the way, and a 30 rounder is barely noticeable. A Vietnam 20 rounder doesn't even stick out. I may or may not want to change that depending on testing.

This is a product that I am personally excited for. In all honesty, it's hard for any engineer to design something and just give up on it. It's an ego thing. But at the end of the day I realize market demand is what it is, so if this flops, it will end up like the F2000, in rarely-sold-on-gunbroker-for-a-lot land.
 
Anyone know of a firearms system that operates on springs being stretch instead of compressed? That might solve some bullpup issues.
 
Anyone know of a firearms system that operates on springs being stretch instead of compressed? That might solve some bullpup issues.
What issues might it solve?

Extension springs have mechanical issues retaining the ends to transfer the force usually resulting in loops or hooks that can and often do becomes stress points for fatigue failures. Compression springs usually just have a flat turn at the ends that is captured and presses against the parts is pushing back into position.
 
The RDB hammer springs are in tension...they are probably the weakest aspect of the whole design, but at least they'll only break one at a time so you can probably still fire.

TCB
 
Good to know.
I suppose I didn't think that through. It wouldn't solve any problems, thinking about other designs. Thanks for the info.
 
Personally I like bullpup designs, with the exception of the trigger, which usually sucks and doesn't have to. They are ideally short for HD or transport in a vehicle, without requiring an SBR tax stamp. In 223/5.56 anything with a short enough barrel to be handy NEEDS a silencer. So a 16 inch barrel, preferably in a caliber that either doesn't have the blast of a full rifle cartridge, or lends itself to suppression, like a 300BO or a pistol round, in a bullpup.

As to your design, does it really have to be that chunky? Look at the lines of a Steyr Aug. As to using AR parts, I understand using the barrels, the non-Aluminum magazines are durable, still could feed better, but the alternative is designing and making your own, which is an iffy proposition. The AR ergonomics are bad. Not as bad as an AK, but still. Look at the ergos of the best handguns for where controls should be placed. Make everything conveniently ambidextrous.

I hope all goes well for you in this venture.
 
Get ahold of ZM or Para and figure out who holds the patents on the ZM uppers, if there are any and that gets you around the need for a buffer tube and makes the hard part not as hard.

image.jpeg image.jpeg Here's a bull pup converted AR.

1012490_zpsa0a3a480.jpg

Then you have a running gun you just need to cover with plastic.

image.jpeg

Not like it hasn't been done before, so you can surely do it again. You can even print one off if you have a 3D printer.

image.jpeg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/27/warfairys-3d-printable-ar-15-bullpup/
 
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Get ahold of ZM or Para and figure out who holds the patents on the ZM uppers, if there are any and that gets you around the need for a buffer tube and makes the hard part not as hard.

View attachment 234956 View attachment 234957 Here's a bull pup converted AR.

1012490_zpsa0a3a480.jpg


Then you have a running gun you just need to cover with plastic.

View attachment 234959

Not like it hasn't been done before, so you can surely do it again. You can even print one off if you have a 3D printer.

View attachment 234960

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/27/warfairys-3d-printable-ar-15-bullpup/

Interesting you mention ZM and Para, I assume you're talking about the LR-300 design. Again, I have a kit that will come to market soon that will enable you to do that with any standard AR. I will most likely be using parts from our kit for the internals. As for the trigger, it will be a smooth clean break, like a P320 or a good geissele trigger.
 
silicosys4 wrote:
I wouldn't trust a firearm that was designed around a purely cosmetic criteria.

What about the Styer AUG? The initial design studies emphasized style and athropmetric considerations over other aspects of function.

And if I told you that Eugene Stoner was partially inspired by the ray guns in movies from his childhood, would you suddenly stop trusting your AR?

There is little if any connection between the inspiration for a product and how well it is executed.
 
I'm definitely interested in a 300 BO bullpup that is significant less expensive than the Tavors and MDRs. Tired of waiting on Kel-Tec. I don't like the Ruger Mini-14 idea because I'd like it to use standard mags. Also, use a trigger at least as good as Kel-tec's RDB, no point in building a rifle that requires an aftermarket trigger to shoot well.
 
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The market is flooded with dirt cheap ar15 components.

The first person that can figure out how to utilize a large portion of them in bulpup configuration without the proprietary parts costing a grand will WIN!

I would start with 300bo because it has hunting appeal AND I can tell you from experience that even with an aluminum bolt carrier and NO buffer one is not overgassed.
 
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