The "Four Rules"

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I agree with the sentiment expressed by others that the four rules are meant for those very new to shooting. In that capacity, I think they're good. As the person progresses they will learn the exceptions to them. But for the time in which they're learning basic gun safety, it's best to keep it as basic as possible. I learned this when teaching safety classes for work about how to use protective equipment. The training was taking too long and there were too many people leaving confused, so we had to simplify it. In so ding, we definitely were letting them leave with some information that didn't hold true in all practical applications, but this was only in regard to scenarios where that information would not present a danger. It just made some things more awkward for them in the beginning. However, most people who took the training would never actually use it after that day. They were just there to get the certification and never use it again, so for the most part we were concerned with their safety for that day, not a year down the road when they were more accomplished. I think this generally holds true for most people taking gun safety courses. A high proportion of them won't ever shoot a gun again in the immediate future, and an even higher proportion will only shoot occasionally, maybe several times a year.

For example, it's not dangerous for someone to think they can't point a gun at themselves while field stripping it. It may lead to them being in a very awkward position and make field stripping certain guns more difficult, but then again maybe new shooters shouldn't be doing that, especially considering how long it takes many of them to figure out that removing the magazine doesn't unload the chamber.

Although I would like to add a fifth rule: When a person is downrange hanging targets do not under any circumstances touch your gun for any reason whatsoever. People at my local range who obviously have no business being there on their own are constantly breaking that one. "Oh, I was just putting the safety on..." they always say, while their gun is locked and loaded, pointed directly downrange at some poor guy unwittingly hanging his target.
 
I guess this is like when someone hears a simple joke and find it funny. When they retell the same joke, but add a little clarification to it so that others will understand the joke better, it just doesn't come across as being all that funny.
For those that think the 4 Ruls need something added to make them more understandable, I ask this. Did you have trouble understanding them, did you need more clarification?
If you understood them, why do you think others need more clarification?
 
But the problem is that you don't understand the Four Rules in the context of fostering proper attitude and mindset, and the attitude and mindset fostered by the Four Rules are relevant at all times.


No Frank, I do understand. You don't understand how to have a two sided discussion. See, I can make uncalled for assumptions about people too. ;)


All opinions aren't equal. The educated opinion of someone with meaningful education, knowledge, training and experience in the subject has more weight than an opinion plucked out of the air by someone without meaningful education, knowledge, training and experience in the subject.

We are certainly in agreement on this one. I base my opinions on these matters primarily on my experiences listening to and being trained by a wide variety of people who have far more real world experience than I. The majority of the dozen plus professionals who I've trained under over the years have been current or former SOF, ranging from Special Forces to Marine Recon to Delta. The rest have been in law enforcement. All have known of the "four rules", all have explained the exceptions to those rules and most have suggested alternatives that are more appropriate in the real world.

This thread has been interesting and has gone pretty much as I expected it to. I didn't think I was going to change anyone's minds. (I never expect people to do that) but I thought it might spur some interesting discussion just the same. It certainly has. I've said my piece and I don't foresee anything more really coming out of this thread other than possibly more insults. Not much point in that. I'm done with this one.
 
bearcreek, thanks for starting this thread. awareness is more important than the details.

murf
 
....No Frank, I do understand. You don't understand how to have a two sided discussion. ...
You haven't convinced me. Our comments are here for all to read, so others can make up their minds.

...I base my opinions on these matters primarily on my experiences listening to and being trained by a wide variety of people who have far more real world experience than I. The majority of the dozen plus professionals who I've trained under over the years have been current or former SOF, ranging from Special Forces to Marine Recon to Delta. The rest have been in law enforcement....
As have I. Among other things, the instructors at Gunsite come from such backgrounds.
 
I would be happy to read and consider an alternative to the Four Rules that is
  • Short and pithy
  • Easy to remember
  • Covers the essential points
...and does not incur the same sorts of objections already raised.
 
I'll confess to actually read most but not all of this thread. Sorry if I repeat what has already been said.

STOP signs are simple. All they say is STOP. They are not simplistic. Simplistic would be asking that further instruction be added to the sign. Like explaining how long one must stop for? when can we cease being stopped and move forward? Under what conditions can we move forward? These are all things we need to know in the real world. But universally we understand the meaning of the sign. It does not explain all but draws our attention to what we need to know NOW. Same for the red, green and yellow lights. Simple devices to focus the mind. Our OP, and others, however demand explanations and circumstances be added to the traffic sign.

The 4 rules are simple and clear. They are also interlocking. You can violate one but if you maintain the others you will still be safe. They interlock and mutually support each other. They do not need to be rewritten or reworked. Simple but not simplistic.

They are not only for the beginner. The longer one is around firearms the more important the 4 rules become.

The 4 rules are clear and easy to remember. Easy to teach. They are memory tools.

Every year or so someone on a gun forum somewhere decides that they have discovered that the 4 are in need or rewriting. Always for the same reasons. The 4 rules will be with us a century from now. Simple things work best.
 
Well, there seems to be an attitude showing in this thread by some that the "pro-4-rules-fraction" is just overly conservative.

I hereby repeat the offer to the critiques of the 4 rules:
- get active
- write a draft for an improved set of rules on which a fruitful discussion could be based
- post your draft on this and/or other firemarms-related forums and invite to discussion over it

Carsten
 
The Stop sign is a terrible analogy since you're given mandatory training on what signs mean and what to do when you encounter one, not to mention you've likely been in the car with another driver and got to see how they react to it well before you actually drive.
 
granpajack said:
I agree with the sentiment expressed by others that the four rules are meant for those very new to shooting.

And you would be just as wrong as the others are. The most unsafe people I see at ranges and in the gun shop are those who have been shooting a long time and are either very lackadaisical about applying the rules or think that the rules don't apply to them.
 
Here's Cooper's "Four Rules". There are a few variations of this but this is the basic idea.
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond.

I'll go over each one and give my thoughts on it.

#1. I believe this one to be far too simplistic and juvenile.
Let the games begin! :D

Comes down to the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple Stupid) and the idea that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore simplicity is the key goal. Been around firearms and the 4 rules (have seen as many as ten) all my life and they basically have always been the same, even tho some folks think they can somehow improve on them by complicating them. Then there are those folks that would argue with a spider on how to make a web. Why does a stop sign only say "Stop"? Shouldn't it say "Stop, look both ways and proceed with caution!", 'cause that's certainly what it infers.? No, keeping it simple works and always has.
 
And you would be just as wrong as the others are. The most unsafe people I see at ranges and in the gun shop are those who have been shooting a long time and are either very lackadaisical about applying the rules or think that the rules don't apply to them.

You're taking what I said out of context.
 
I've been struggling with a way to answer the core question of this thread without being mean, or catty, or a jerk. I came upon the idea of wisdom vs. knowledge and I googled it, looking for some wisdom to help me out. Here is what I found:

Wisdom vs. knowledge... It's being aware of something, and having information. Knowledge is really about facts and ideas that we acquire through study, research, investigation, observation, or experience. Wisdom is the ability to discern and judge which aspects of that knowledge are true, right, lasting, and applicable to your life.

The 4 rules are about submitting and subordinating yourself to wisdom, without worrying about literal truth. Sometimes wisdom is about paradoxes that cannot be resolved, like the truths contained in the 4 rules.
 
We see this discussion a lot, what we don't see is anyone giving a new set of four rules that the community likes and feels will protect shooters better than the original set of rules.

If you think so, prove it. Go ahead -- tuchus oyfn tish:

  • Come up with a few short "rules" that --
    • Will be easily understood by someone with no prior firearms experience and without the assistance of anyone else like an instructor or mentor.

    • Will instill the proper, safe gun handling attitude and mindset.

    • Will be easily remembered.

    • Will reliably and invariably put into practice by someone with no prior firearms experience and without the assistance of anyone else like an instructor or mentor.

  • And convince us that your "rules" accomplish that (and note that no one has said the the Four Rules were adequate in a vacuum for someone with no firearms experience who just buys a gun and goes out to shoot it somewhere.).
So put forth a set for discussion.
 
The 4 rules are about submitting and subordinating yourself to wisdom, without worrying about literal truth. Sometimes wisdom is about paradoxes that cannot be resolved, like the truths contained in the 4 rules.
Nice. :)
 
Common sense is a requirement for safe firearm ownership.

When I hand a firearm to another, or recieve a firearm, I always say 4 words:
"Lets clear it together".

Common sense.
 
For handing over an "unloaded" gun, I clear it, hand it to them open, and tell them to check it again. I couldn't live with myself if someone shot themselves or someone else with a gun I handed to them as "unloaded". Mistakes happen.

There is no such thing as "too careful" when using firearms, heavy equipment, power tools, or anything else that can maim or kill.
 
For handing over an "unloaded" gun, I clear it, hand it to them open, and tell them to check it again. I couldn't live with myself if someone shot themselves or someone else with a gun I handed to them as "unloaded". Mistakes happen.

There is no such thing as "too careful" when using firearms, heavy equipment, power tools, or anything else that can maim or kill.


That's why I clear it "with" them.
It's actually a selfish move on my part, that keeps both of us safe and lets me sleep at night.

I have a young son, so safety and rules get preached and practiced all day every day.
 
I agree, Bad Ninja; I teach Shooting Sports for 4-H and I use TAB-K, The Four Rules as taught by the WI DNR. I go over the Rules each range session, and more importantly, I practice what I preach, and challenge the kids to catch me not doing so. The repetition hammers it home for those who learn by rote, putting them to use hammers it home for those who learn kinesthetically, and watching for me to make a mistake helps those who learn by emulation, and gets them to memorize them (so they can catch me) without even realizing it, as well as see an example of what 'good' looks like.
 
If you shoot someone by accident, you have in the process violated at least one of the Four Rules. I do not think the rules need further justification.
 
Rule One seems to generate the most confusion. Obviously, a gun can be unloaded. However, it is stupid to ever assume one is unloaded. Stupidity that can have serious consequences. If you pick up any firearm, it is loaded until you have visually verified at least twice that there is no ammunition in the chamber or magazine. As soon as the weapon leaves your immediate physical control, the process starts over again. Even if you place it on your coffee table and are the only one in the house. Because, as we used to say in the military, "Murphy lives in your gear bag and he's trying to bloody kill you". Except we aren't British and didn't say "bloody".

Mental lapses happen. This is part of the purpose of the Four Rules. To mitigate human fallibility. You can blow it on one rule and adherence to the other three will *probably* save you from a tragedy. Another purpose is to ingrain habits to save us from our own fallibility. That's one of the reasons for the repetition and redundancy in Cooper's Rules. They are not just rules to meet conditions, they are rules to modify our behavior into something far less hazardous than the natural state of a naked monkey holding a tool capable of projecting force not found in the natural world.

Are they perfect? Probably not, as all things invented by human beings are subject to improvement. But I haven't seen anything that does the job better or more concisely. That may change one day. If we stumble on something better, we should adopt it. But Cooper's "Four Rules" have been going strong for decades now.
 
....Mental lapses happen. This is part of the purpose of the Four Rules. To mitigate human fallibility. You can blow it on one rule and adherence to the other three will *probably* save you from a tragedy. Another purpose is to ingrain habits to save us from our own fallibility. That's one of the reasons for the repetition and redundancy in Cooper's Rules. They are not just rules to meet conditions, they are rules to modify our behavior into something far less hazardous than the natural state of a naked monkey holding a tool capable of projecting force not found in the natural world.....
I really like this. It's a good way to describe the underlying purpose of the Four Rules and how they work.

Perhaps it would also help to think of the Four Rules, especially Rule One, as roadblocks on the path to doing something stupid. For example, knowledge, courtesy of Rule One, that the gun in your hand is loaded is an obstacle that must be overcome before pointing the gun at something and pulling the trigger. Remember that the Four Rules are to promote the safe handling of loaded guns. People who put guns to practical use, like carrying a gun for self defense or for hunting, are handling loaded guns.

In contrast, let's take another look at the two rules proposed by the OP:

I...In our CCW classes we tell the students about the four NRA rules, but we want them to remember two basic rules that cover all the bases when taken fully to their logical conclusion. Those two rules are:

1. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.
This one is self explanatory. When you it's time to actually fire the weapon, that's when you put your finger on the trigger. Otherwise, keep it off.
2. Always maintain active muzzle awareness.
This one requires some more explanation. Active muzzle awareness means always knowing where and at what, your gun is pointing, whether you're in the act of shooting are just transporting the weapon......
What do they really mean?

What is "ready" to shoot? What does "ready" mean? In USPSA competition one is ready when he has loaded his gun under the supervision of the range office and placed the gun in the starting condition for the stage. Is that "ready to shoot"? Aren't I ready to shoot when I have concluded that I'm in a situation that requires defensive, lethal force and have drawn my gun from its holster? But surely I'm not supposed to put my finger on the trigger at that point.

"Ready" can mean a lot of things. In my house when I was growing up, when my mother said, "dinner's ready" it meant she was getting out the serving dishes and we had about five minutes before it would be time to sit down at the table.

And "maintain active muzzle awareness"? I'm aware that I'm pointing my gun at aunt Myrtle's head. But am I supposed to be pointing my gun at aunt Myrtle's head? Is it okay to be pointing my gun where it shouldn't be pointed as long as I'm aware of where I'm pointing it?
 
The Stop sign is a terrible analogy since you're given mandatory training on what signs mean and what to do when you encounter one, not to mention you've likely been in the car with another driver and got to see how they react to it well before you actually drive.

All analogies only go so far. When you stretch them too far they break. The STOP sign works in the real world because it calls us to remember what we have been trained to do.

When we all saw the 4 rules for the first time we all asked ourselves, "How does that work?". Everyone who sees them asks the same questions as the OP has asked. That's the beginning. So we all ask the obvious questions. Training begins, or advances, this way.

Before the 4 rules we had numerous "Gun Safety Lists" or "Safe Handling" lists. IIRC the NRA's list was up to 10 or 15 rules, each with a sentence or two of exposition. You can still read versions of some of them in the manuals that come with a pistol or rifle.

The 4 rules invite discussion about them and their meaning. They encourage it. That's the only way to adequately begin on gun safety.

The 4 rules are not something that you can just hand to people and expect them to read it and get it. Nope, you show them the 4 rules and it prompts discussion. They require and suppose discussion and instruction. To do otherwise would require a small essay. Some versions of Gun Safety lists were becoming that, half or a full page of instructions. Folks soon learned to read right past it.

The 4 rules are not a substitute for discussion and questions, they are there to prompt it. That's why they work.

Often when folks look to rewrite the 4 rules they are looking for a substitute for discussion and training. One set of rules that covers all bases.

The 4 rules work because they are a tool to remember and easy to keep straight.
 
I'm aware that I'm pointing my gun at aunt Myrtle's head. But am I supposed to be pointing my gun at aunt Myrtle's head?

Only of Aunt Myrtle is advancing in a threatening manner and you feel your life or the life of another is in eminent danger.
:p

Sorry. Its been a long day and I just couldn't resist a bit of levity.
 
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