Springfield Armory & Rock River Arms - No More for Me

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The last thing they want is a level playing field. :D
They'd harvest the organs of their first born for a legislative advantage, real or imagined.
IL was ill and annoying before SA and RRA and will likely continue as such, whether or not one or both of em leave.
 
<*(((>< said:
What Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms need to do is refuse to be treated different then any of the other firearm dealers and stand on the same level playing field and battle this. It seems to me that they made sure they were exempted first and then stand beside all the others who will be taken down with this legislation.
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This is my perspective as well.

Nothing will kill this bill faster than them saying, "This applies to us as well now, so if you pass it, we will be unable to continue owning a business in IL." Slam dunk end of bill. Instead, I'm requested by SA via email to submit a "witness slip" for SB-1657. Which I did, because the bill is stupid. But it's all empty talk by SA and a PR move only until they truly stand with IL gun owners, not just advocate for them while getting preferential exemptions to harmful legislation.
 
This is typical of bigger businesses and schools. It's all about making more money & higher #s. For my M-14, I'm saving up for either a Fulton Armory or LRB. Then there's the Windham Weaponry AR-10's. Time will tell.
 
stonecutter2 said:
This is my perspective as well.

Nothing will kill this bill faster than them saying, "This applies to us as well now, so if you pass it, we will be unable to continue owning a business in IL." Slam dunk end of bill. Instead, I'm requested by SA via email to submit a "witness slip" for SB-1657. Which I did, because the bill is stupid. But it's all empty talk by SA and a PR move only until they truly stand with IL gun owners, not just advocate for them while getting preferential exemptions to harmful legislation.
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Now that would be REAL action on the part of Springfield Armory's concerned executives.

I, for one, am certainly not going to hold my breath waiting for SA to do something so genuine.
 
Yes, I said from early on that the only thing that was going to convince me they were really on our side now would be 'surrendering' their exception from the bill; and putting the threat ('We'll move if it's passed') in the mix would certainly help.


Larry
 
Did you guys see the latest product from SA? Really, I didn't make this up, my lobbyist might have, but I don't talk to him.

Springfield Armory in conjunction with Rock River Arms announces "The heroes of the crown series"!

The newly released Benedict Arnold auto musket comes with our brass button rifled (for her pleasure) stainless cast iron barrel with a slow 130 degree bend downward and back and a 2 round high capacity magazine that contains enough ammunition to shoot both your own feet! Also included at no charge is a shoulder thingy that goes up! Approved by the crown for sale to treasonous colonials.

Buy now and get a free ration of spotted dick and a 12" dagger that is useful for stabbing your friends in the back. Give it an extra twist from the folks at Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms!

Coming soon, the Thomas Gage self loathing, sorry, LOADING automatic handgonne!
 
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BearBrimstone said:
At first I disliked Springfield Armory for this and thought I definitely won't be buying any of their products in the near future, but then I started thinking about it. If I'm honest about it I would have made the same decision if I were in their shoes. If I owned a company and I had the option of protecting my company but I had to throw other people under the bus of course I would do it. Why hurt my company just to help people I don't know? They merely made the smart business decision.
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You should produce the next Hunger Games movie involving businesses :) Beyond the ethical issues of throwing people under the bus, in the longer term, the same politicians/system will very likely come after you next after a lot of opposition has been destroyed during the last purge(s).
 
ATN082268 said:
You should produce the next Hunger Games movie involving businesses :) Beyond the ethical issues of throwing people under the bus, in the longer term, the same politicians/system will very likely come after you next after a lot of opposition has been destroyed during the last purge(s).
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I'm not a business guru, but I have owned a business for 17 years. I've yet to see a scenario where alienating your customer base was helpful. Both companies had a number of ways they could have handled this situation. There may be a worse way than what they did, but I can't think of it. I was willing to hear their side of the story and had a nice conversation with Dennis Reese's daughter. I let her know that the way to put this fire out is to provide an explanation as to how they were unaware of what their lobbyist was doing. That was 11 days ago and nothing has been provided. Until they convince me their hands are clean (assuming that's possible), I won't buy another one of their products.
 
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I own products from both - a SA 1911 and a RRA 1911 frame. Having followed this, I'm convinced they can't clear up the controversy because the situation is exactly as it appears - they were willing to throw their state's gun dealers under the bus to protect themselves. I won't be buying any more of their products or recommending them to anyone.
 
Sent an email today asking questions they haven't answered and really I didn't see anyone else ask them. Counting up.
 
I received a telephone call today out of the blue from a very nice woman representing Rock River Arms. She said they were calling FFL dealers in Illinois to warn us about this bill and the trouble it could bring, especially for small firearm dealers. I unsurprisingly had some pointed questions at the ready and she responded professionally, even saying that RRA will NOT take advantage of any previous 'carve out' provision. She said the information on that is available on their website. Unfortunately, I have better things to do with my time at this point than go web browsing to look it up. Several times she offered to give me the phone number of upper RRA management so that I could ask them whatever I wanted, but I politely declined to take it. As I said, at this point I have other things I would rather be spending my time on.

Still - I appreciated the effort they are making, regardless of my skepticism at their underlying motivations.
 
Typical of the news media and internet today, I think there is something missing in the reporting that is going on.

I'm willing to give Springfield and Rock River the benefit of the doubt these days.

But, by all means, vote your conscience with your pocketbook if you feel the need.
 
TomJ said:
I called SA yesterday. The rep I spoke with told me there's more to the story and to check their web site in a week as things will be explained.
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That doesn't inspire confidence. Why does it take a week to tell the truth? If I had a company that was wrongly accused of something, I would get the truth out immediately...
 
il.bill said:
I received a telephone call today out of the blue from a very nice woman representing Rock River Arms. She said they were calling FFL dealers in Illinois to warn us about this bill and the trouble it could bring, especially for small firearm dealers. I unsurprisingly had some pointed questions at the ready and she responded professionally, even saying that RRA will NOT take advantage of any previous 'carve out' provision. She said the information on that is available on their website. Unfortunately, I have better things to do with my time at this point than go web browsing to look it up. Several times she offered to give me the phone number of upper RRA management so that I could ask them whatever I wanted, but I politely declined to take it. As I said, at this point I have other things I would rather be spending my time on.

Still - I appreciated the effort they are making, regardless of my skepticism at their underlying motivations.
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If RRA lives up the that (RRA will NOT take advantage of any previous 'carve out' provision) and truly take it like everyone else will have to, then I have a bit of respect for them. I already have picked out the remaining parts for my NM AR-15 but none of the parts are from them. Possibly on the next one, maybe.....

SA though is still in "the lobbyist did it!" mode, so nothing for them.
 
RRA and Springfield got caught trying to use political clout to hurt their competitors and sided with anti 2A politicians to do it . Media bias and internet gossip are not the issue. Now they are in PR mode trying to minimize the damage. Both now say they "pulled out of the IMFA", as if it's a huge entity that went rogue. The IMFA is Rock River and Sprinfield 100%, nobody else at the table.
If I had to bet on it, I would say this will probably break RRA, especially now with falling demand. Springfield is probably big enough and has enough brand loyal fans (brand blind fans?) to weather the storm.
 
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RRA makes the most accurate AR's out of the box I ever saw and that includes the $2000 and up AR's for a good price
 
SA and RRA and their lobbyist got themselves, as well as 'big box' stores, exempted from the Illinois dealer licensing requirements, at the expense of all the rest of us. No more SA or RRA firearms bought or sold for me.
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I always thought SA was overpriced and RRA never impressed me as being worth the additional cost for the purposes I would be buying an AR for in the first place, so I've never been a customer of either so getting mad at them and joining a boycott would just deprive them of a customer they never had in the first place.
 
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