Uberti revolving carbine

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knirirr

knirirr

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Hopefully this is the right forum to post this question - apologies if not. Anyway, I am interested in acquiring one of these:

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=694_777_778_789&products_id=7265

But, I have been wondering whether it is a reproduction of a weapon which was produced historically or whether this is a modern creation. Does anyone know, and if it is the former, have any information on the original? I've seen that Colt produced an earlier percussion revolving carbine but I've not seen anything about later cartridge arms along these lines.
 
That is in fact a reproduction but it's not entirely accurate historically. Look up a Buntline Special to learn about them. The gun is attributed to a novelist named Ned Buntline and some were built by Colt with 12" barrels. The term Buntline today is typically used to describe any long-barrelled (>7.5") SA revolver.
Mine is below. It did not come with a stock, which is how I wanted it.
DSCF3331_zpsc772086b.JPG
 
Many thanks for your reply. It's disappointing that the Uberti carbine isn't a copy of something historical - I may have to think again about purchasing one.
I've heard of the Buntline and I'd certainly be interested, but only if I could find one with a detachable stock. The stocks seem to be difficult to come by, and I don't recall seeing one for sale (in the UK, at least) at any point. The revolver itself is easy enough to find, though:

http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=694_790_791_794&products_id=7365
 
From the Uberti website:

The Uberti 1873 Revolver Carbine is available in .45 caliber with an 18-inch barrel. Choose from traditional field sights or adjustable target sights.

The Colt Buntline 1873 Single-Action target revolver has become one of the icons of the Old West. Only 31 of the original Buntline revolvers were ever produced, and only 18 of those are around today.

The name Buntline Specials was given to long-barreled Peacemakers, based on this story: Tradition has it that dime novelist Ned Buntline presented special-order 1873 Colt revolvers with extra-long barrels, target sights, and detachable wire shoulder stocks to a select group of Old West celebrities. They included Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson.

So, it sounds like it's loosely based on a limited run, special order item. It'd be more realistic to have the detachable wire shoulder stock, but I bet it doesn't look nearly as cool...
 
The original Colt Buntline had two distinctive features that modern Uberti replicas don't - longer hammer screw, that protrudes from both sides of the frame and a notch at the bottom of the grip. Both are neded for attaching the shoulder stock. So even if one finds a Buntline type stock, it will not be possible to attach it to a stock Uberti - some modifications will be needed.
I have shot the Uberti revolver carbine in .357 Magnum and I was not impressed - the stock was ill fitting and wobbled all around even after we tighten the screws as hard as we dare and every time you shot that damn thing you got a mighty unpleasant blast in the face from powder particles and hot gasses. I did not had a chance to closely examine that abomination, so I cannot say if this was a result of bad timing, or just a model "feature", but be advised.
 
Mizar said:
The original Colt Buntline had two distinctive features that modern Uberti replicas don't - longer hammer screw, that protrudes from both sides of the frame and a notch at the bottom of the grip. Both are neded for attaching the shoulder stock. So even if one finds a Buntline type stock, it will not be possible to attach it to a stock Uberti - some modifications will be needed.
I have shot the Uberti revolver carbine in .357 Magnum and I was not impressed - the stock was ill fitting and wobbled all around even after we tighten the screws as hard as we dare and every time you shot that damn thing you got a mighty unpleasant blast in the face from powder particles and hot gasses. I did not had a chance to closely examine that abomination, so I cannot say if this was a result of bad timing, or just a model "feature", but be advised.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice - that would seem to argue against purchasing either of these weapons, then. It's essential that whatever I obtain behaves well enough and has a stock for shooting at 100-200 yards.
I might well have to investigate further.
 
knirirr said:
Thanks for the advice - that would seem to argue against purchasing either of these weapons, then. It's essential that whatever I obtain behaves well enough and has a stock for shooting at 100-200 yards.
I might well have to investigate further.
Click to expand...
My revolver shoots well and I I recommend it, although I understand you want it for longer range shooting so the stock would be necessary.
 
Howdy

The revolver referred to by the Original Poster is a fantasy gun. It did not exist.

Yes, the reproductions of the Remington revolvers with a shoulder stock are reproductions of a firearm that actually existed. There were not a whole lot made, but they did exist.

This:

https://www.uberti-usa.com/1873-revolver-carbine-and-buntline
however is a fantasy gun. It did not exist. Notice there is no pistol grip, the buttstock is bolted directly to the frame.

The real Bunline Specials with shoulder stocks are a different story. These very rare revolvers had a conventional handgrip. The detachable shoulder stock was usually a skeletonized metal stock. The revolver could be fired as a conventional handgun or it could have the stock attached and be fired as a rifle.

Here is a link with some excellent photos of Buntline Specials with their detachable shoulder stocks. Notice the revolvers have conventional pistol grips. Notice how rare and valuable they are.

http://www.bluebookofgunvalues.com/Blogs/Gun_Of_The_Week.aspx?industry=1&article=138


Smith and Wesson made long barrelled revolvers with detachable buttstocks but they were very rare and are very valuable today.


14553292_1_zpsrkaalujl.jpg





S&W also offered detachable shoulder stocks for some of their more conventional revolvers.
CUB83-Z-F1-H_zpszxsgojhs.jpg




As my friend Crunchy Frog stated, these revolvers are not legal for CAS competitions. Also, one should always keep both hands behind the cylinder with these firearms, particularly the percussion Remington reproductions. A chain fire with a hand in front of the cylinder could really ruin the shooter's day.
 
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knirirr said:
Thanks for the advice - that would seem to argue against purchasing either of these weapons, then. It's essential that whatever I obtain behaves well enough and has a stock for shooting at 100-200 yards.
I might well have to investigate further.
Click to expand...

At those ranges just get a Ruger Super Blackhawk!

Bob Wright
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
The revolver referred to by the Original Poster is a fantasy gun. It did not exist.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's what I feared.
The article posted above about the original Remingtons was very interesting, but I'm after a cartridge arm on this occasion.
Unless some sort of Buntline which will accept a stock (I note the comments above about the Uberti repros) can be found then I might perhaps have to look at a Henry or Spencer instead. Not quite what I'm after, but at least based on something that existed. The Henry repros are certainly available here - I know someone who has one.


Driftwood Johnson said:
As my friend Crunchy Frog stated, these revolvers are not legal for CAS competitions.
Click to expand...

Almost certainly not a problem for me, but useful to know.

Driftwood Johnson said:
Also, one should always keep both hands behind the cylinder with these firearms, particularly the percussion Remington reproductions. A chain fire with a hand in front of the cylinder could really ruin the shooter's day.
Click to expand...

I'm quite happy to shoot in this manner - one of the reasons I'm considering a revolving carbine.
 
Knirirr, as you seem to like the Uberti Buntline I have a wild guess that you may want to check: a Pietta 1851 Navy shoulder stock. An 1851 has the same grip frame as the 1873 - some people even swap them because of the slightly different profile at the back. For the 1851 stock Pietta uses the same attaching method as for the SAA - longer hammer screw, unlike Uberti's version which uses two additional screws for stock support and a profiled cut on the recoil shield, which is the historically correct way. So, with the Buntline you have the same grip and the same location for the hammer screw. The only thing left is to find the longer hammer screw, and check if the frame has a slot for the stock attachment - some frames have it, some frames don't. But it's not a heavy task to grind one - any competent gunsmith can do it. If you can accept the fact, that the Pietta stock is not exactly historically correct you may want to try it.

BTW, it seems that Uberti (at least for the US market) makes a Buntline type shoulder stock with the proper attachment method - http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/skeletal-shoulder-stock.html
You may ask the good guys at Henry Crank if they can order one from Uberti.
 
Mizar said:
Knirirr, as you seem to like the Uberti Buntline I have a wild guess that you may want to check: a Pietta 1851 Navy shoulder stock.
...
BTW, it seems that Uberti (at least for the US market) makes a Buntline type shoulder stock with the proper attachment method - http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/skeletal-shoulder-stock.html
You may ask the good guys at Henry Crank if they can order one from Uberti.
Click to expand...

Thanks, definitely worth checking out.
 
knirirr said:
The Henry repros are certainly available here - I know someone who has one.
Click to expand...

I have one too. It is my Main Match rifle in CAS. This one is the so called 'iron frame' model (actually steel). This one is the Uberti version. You should know these are not chambered for the original 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge, that has not been manufactured for many years. Mine is chambered for 44-40. The only other cartridge this rifle is currently chambered for is 45 Colt. Because the 44-40 and 45 Colt are longer cartridges than the original 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge, the carrier and the area of the frame where the carrier sits have been stretched a bit to accommodate the longer cartridge. Not that you would notice unless you compared it to an original. You should also know that because the barrel and magazine are machined from a solid bar of steel, the rifle is very heavy. A good pound more than a Model 1873 Winchester of the same caliber and barrel length. And when shooting Black Powder rounds on a hot summer day, the barrel gets very hot and there is no wooden fore end to hold onto. I usually shoot it with a glove on my left hand.

Not that the Henry isn't fun, they are terrific. But they're not for everyone.

Henry07_zps6828738f.jpg
 
Speedo66 said:
How about one of those reproductions with a cartridge conversion cylinder?
Click to expand...

That would certainly do the trick. The article aarondhgraham posted contains this image:

http://www.remingtonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/RR_p28_1.jpg

So, that would do the trick nicely, if I can find a repro. for sale and also acquire a conversion cylinder (this would require a specific variation on my licence). The rimfire ammunition won't be available but I'm not worried too much about that - .45 LC will be sufficient.
Anyway, worth investigating.
 
Unfortunately neither Pietta or Uberti make such a carbine, so you are stuck with a cartridge conversion cylinder (and a new license headache).

P.S. I believe this cylinder is as close to the original conversion carbines as you can get: https://www.brownells.co.uk/epages/...Products/09488633185100/SubProducts/633185102 You will have to remove the cylinder for loading though - just like with the the originals!
 
Mizar said:
Unfortunately neither Pietta or Uberti make such a carbine, so you are stuck with a cartridge conversion cylinder (and a new license headache).

P.S. I believe this cylinder is as close to the original conversion carbines as you can get: https://www.brownells.co.uk/epages/...Products/09488633185100/SubProducts/633185102 You will have to remove the cylinder for loading though - just like with the the originals!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the cylinder info.
This chap seems to have a reproduction:

Remington revolving carbine - YouTube

But, that was 4 years ago. Have they gone out of production? Even if so then I might be able to find one second hand. The cylinder is likely to be more of a problem, as you say.
 
Interesting to note that the same cylinder, sold by the same company, Brownell's, is almost $200 dollars more in the UK than in the US.
 
Speedo66 said:
Interesting to note that the same cylinder, sold by the same company, Brownell's, is almost $200 dollars more in the UK than in the US.
Click to expand...

We do tend to get ripped off rather often over here. I was speaking to an RFD about this gun yesterday and he said:

USA price $589
Brownell's UK £861.30

...and that's apparently without the extra cylinder.
 
Hi Knirirr, I don't remember exactly what is the law in UK for acquiring a muzzle loading firearm, but if you are allowed to import one without too much hassle try this site: http://www.westernguns.fr/armes-a-p...e-bronze.html?search_query=carbine&results=38
The owner, Maxim, is very responsive and speaks fluent English. And those are some of the lowest prices I found in EU concerning muzzle loading firearms.

P.S. He is a member of this forum as well, but I don't remember his user name...
 
Howdy

There are several different brands and types of conversion cylinders sold for the 1858 Remington revolver for shooting 45 colt. However there is only one made with six chambers, the others all have five chambers. The one pictured, with six chambers, is marketed exclusively by Taylor's. Brownells is simply reselling the Taylor's cylinder. I have no idea why they are charging so much.

I have two 1858 Remington revolvers that are equipped with this particular conversion cylinder. They work great.

Tayor's currently lists the Remington revolving carbine in their catalog and mention the cartridge cylinder is available separately.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/blackpowder-revolvers/1858-revolving-carbine.html


The rub is, the cylinders are slightly different for revolvers made by Uberti or Pietta. You have to know which manufacturer made the gun. Also, be sure to get a cylinder chambered for 45 Colt, not 44 Colt. They are different. You cannot chamber a 45 Colt cartridge in a cylinder made for 44 Colt.


I have no idea what the laws are in the England regarding putting a conversion cylinder in a Cap & Ball revolver, however I suspect it is not legal. Wasn't the intent of the laws to outlaw all handguns in England?

No idea how they would treat a revolving carbine with a cartridge cylinder.
 
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