S&W Shield -- 9 mm or 40 cal?

So when dealing with +p or +p+ why not just step up in caliber instead of trying to make something into something it's not designed to do, it's pushing a gun past safety guidelines and the recoil is on par or greater than the next caliber up, I have never understood this, if you are happy with 9mm performance with Sami guidelines get the 9mm if you want the 40 performance get the 40 it's all trade off's the shield is a good shooter in both choices

I have the 40. It's compact and has low mass. As such, it barks with snappy recoil even with my low/mid velocity handloads. Have not shot the 9mm.

In a small gun like the shield, 40 cal will be brutal to shoot. I much prefer 9mm in carry guns.

I have both. Like both.
The 9 is definitely more pleasant to shoot. Especially if I'm running heavy loaded 180gr JHP reloads using LongShot (.40). I figured out why one of the moderators here calls it "LOUDSHOT"...
I put a set of Talon adhesive grips on the .40 to improve control with full power sd loads, and they help quite a bit. In the final analysis, If I'm going to the range to shoot, or qualify, etc, I'll take the 9. If walking through that "Valley" mentioned in Psalms 23, I'll take the .40! ( an ar, shotgun, and plenty of help, too).
I date back to the days of the discussion being between Colt and S&W, .357mag and .45. I saw the rise and fall of the "wunder 9's", and origin of the 10mm and .40. My last duty/carry/issue was a G22. I'm very fond of the .40. Killed a couple of deer with the G22. Never bothered with a 9, though I know it will work "IF", you use just the right bullet, in just the right spot...
The 9 is fine! Got a bunch of'em. Shoot'em a LOT.
But I carry the .40...

btw, just for grins, I tried loading and shooting 9mm in/from the .40 magazines in the 9mm Sheild. Only difference I can see in magazines is holes denoting round count and color/marking of follower. Mags work interchangeably, even swapping slides to frames works. Kept barrels mated to original slide however.
I got the .40 first.
Then I got two gift cards to Academy Sports, and gun (Sheild) was on sale. Add in the rebate (still waiting for check), I got the 9 for less than $100 "out of pocket"... who could resist that!

CDW4ME said:

In Lucky Gunner tests, there are more loads in 40 that penetrate and consistently expand than 9mm:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
9mm 124/147 HST penetrated 15-18'' expanded .61
40 S&W 180 HST penetrated 18.5'' expanded .72

9mm 124 +P Gold Dot 16.8'' / .52
40 180 Gold Dot 14.5'' / .65

Various 9mm Ranger T's performed inconsistently, whereas 40 Rangers did well.
Using equal bullets HST / Gold Dot 40 has larger recovered diameters, starts bigger ends up bigger.

Yes, one can "cherry pick" and find select 9mm loads that perform better than some 40 loads (good idea when carrying a 9mm)
9mm is going to recoil less and hold one more bullet, 40 has the potential to make bigger holes with a wider ammo selection.

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Using that data, one can calculate the recoil energy for an objective measure
(I assigned a firearm weight of 1 lb and used #7 powder charges from AA load manual.)
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php
147 HST @ 973 fps = recoil energy 10.6
180 HST @ 964 fps = recoil energy 14.8
Comparing these two loads, 40 produces about 28% more recoil energy than 9mm

I have lots of 40 ammo (factory and reloads), brass and dies for the 40/10mm left over from my 229 days that I've kept just in case I ever find one I want at a crazy can't refuse price or a platform (think cz) that I'd want.

That being said...

If I was going to intentionally go out and buy another pistol today (think CZ PCR or P-01) it would be 9mm.

My wise guy respond to your question is the obvious answer is BOTH.

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If you plan to practice regularly the 9mm will rather quickly pay for itself in practice ammo cost savings and save wear and tear on your carry gun.

As to the difference in recoil -- since most folks involved in defensive shooting report never even hearing the gun fire, so when that amped up I have a hard time believing anyone would notice the recoil difference.

I started with the .40 and after breaking it in and starting to carry it I quickly got the 9mm for practice. Did the same with my Kahr which I carried for years until the Shield came out. Good as the Kahr is (although the Customer support is not so hot, use the search) I like and shoot the Shield better.

wally said:

If you plan to practice regularly the 9mm will rather quickly pay for itself in practice ammo cost savings and save wear and tear on your carry gun.

As to the difference in recoil -- since most folks involved in defensive shooting report never even hearing the gun fire, so when that amped up I have a hard time believing anyone would notice the recoil difference.

I started with the .40 and after breaking it in and starting to carry it I quickly got the 9mm for practice. Did the same with my Kahr which I carried for years until the Shield came out. Good as the Kahr is (although the Customer support is not so hot, use the search) I like and shoot the Shield better.

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I'm not concerned with feeling recoil in a self defense situation, I am concerned with what that recoil does with follow up shots.

I carry an M&P 40 Shield because that’s what works best for me.

For others it could be 9mm Luger.

The ‘correct’ answer is what works best for each individual.

I'm not concerned with feeling recoil in a self defense situation, I am concerned with what that recoil does with follow up shots.

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If follow up shots were decisive we'd all be carrying .22lr or .25ACP

When hosing down the steel plates on a rack sure I'm faster with 9mm than .45 from the lower recoil (difference between 9mm & .40 is not so much) but with targets setup in a multiple assailant scenario the difference is negligible.

If follow up shots were that much faster and accurate IPSC-type competitions would be dominated by the minor calibers.

I bought the 40 when they came out because of the availability of ammo at the time. Still don't own a 9 but ammo is now available and cheaper. Still would probably do it again now. Like the 40.

wally said:

If follow up shots were decisive we'd all be carrying .22lr or .25ACP

When hosing down the steel plates on a rack sure I'm faster with 9mm than .45 from the lower recoil (difference between 9mm & .40 is not so much) but with targets setup in a multiple assailant scenario the difference is negligible.

If follow up shots were that much faster and accurate IPSC-type competitions would be dominated by the minor calibers.

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I'd argue the recoil between 9mm and .40 in a gun the size and weight of the Shield is more than a little. As far as .22lr and .25, that's kind of a ridiculous analogy, unless you are saying the performance gap between .22lr/.25acp and 9mm is the same as between 9mm and .40.

Hanzo581 said:

I'd argue the recoil between 9mm and .40 in a gun the size and weight of the Shield is more than a little

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I have shot both and the shield 40 is not that big of a difference with the 180gr HST and the 9 124gr HST , at least to me is not a big difference, I really wonder how many of the folks that say the 40 is so bad has spent any amount of time with the 40sw or just echoing internet hype, I mean how may have spent time shooting the 40 and 9 shield side by side with a few boxes of ammo ? I did and like I said to "ME" the shield 40 not a wrist breaking monster,
I also consider the shield as a carry gun not a target/range gun I think the OP needs to decide if he wants a small carry gun or a gun that shoots small groups a 25 yards to me those are two different guns, to me recoil and follow up shots dont come in play when most SD scenarios posted are within 7 yards or less I mean I believe justifiable self defense is going to be up close a personal, shooting someone at a distance with time for a correct shooting stance with targeted follow up shots may well put you in jail for murder now a days and with the laws in the OP's state of California ??

I am not sure this is the thread to starting getting into the ins and out of self defense shooting justification. All I was saying is in the platforms I've shot .40 in (mainly compact sized), compared to similar sized 9mm pistols, it's a decent amount more recoil. Does recoil matter in self defense shooting? I'd say of course it does but I guess that's for a whole other thread. At any rate, my bottom line is I do not think the performance of the .40 compared to 9mm justifies increased recoil and loss of capacity. To each their own.

If anyone wants to go to Brownells Tent Sale at their retail store in Grinnell Iowa today they have 45 acp Shields for $204.99 and 9mm for $239.99 after rebate.

IMHO. Between the 2 get the 9mm. It holds more. 9mm has plenty of penetration for self defense use.

I have one of each. One in 9mm, 40 and 45. The 45 is my favorite. Very accurate. The only downside is loading the magazines to full capacity the first time. Very hard

I think even Chuck Norris might not be able to do it. Lol

Even the FBI is dropping .40 in favor of 9mm. How much more do you need to know?

As far as .22lr and .25, that's kind of a ridiculous analogy, unless you are saying the performance gap between .22lr/.25acp and 9mm is the same as between 9mm and .40.

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I'm saying if the speed of delivering a second shot was more important than the effectiveness of the first shot then follow up shots would be decisive and the fastest follow ups would be with .22lr or .25ACP. Carry enough gun. I like the .40S&W in sub-compacts ( <4" barrel) because the velocity loss of .45ACP in the short barrel risks inadequate penetration especially if you do get expansion.

If I carried a 9mm I'd carry 147gr ammo, when I don't feel I need to carry a gun I carry a little .380 (which is less pleasant to shoot than my .40 Shield)

Worrying about recoil is fine for the range, but if the bullets are flying both ways odds are all your fine motor skills go out the window and you'll end up "instinctively" point shooting focusing on the threat whether you practice doing it or not. I pretty much only do "point shooting" at 3-7 yards with my little .380 pistols.


Lots of clichés apply to various degrees:
"Speed is fine, accuracy is final" -- absolutely, the three most important factors in handgun effectiveness are bullet placement, placement, and penetration!

"You can't miss fast enough to win" -- true enough, but its trivially easy to be slow enough to lose!

"Any hit is a good hit" -- few things will mess up your opponent's aim as much as a bullet impact, but "instinctive point shooting" at close range often means both sides take hits, and often a non-torso hit goes unnoticed until afterwards when amped up on adrenaline. Read the story: "Gang Leader versus Pistol Master: The Wayne Johnson incident" by Massad Ayoob in American Handgunner.


My position is to carry the biggest gun you can adequately conceal, but rule #1 is have a gun! Practice with something as similar in operation as possible that doesn't break the bank or beat you up. Its impossible to have too much practice. Its even better if you can practice draws from concealment, and shooting from behind or around cover. Although many public ranges will make this impossible to do with live fire, a "realistic" AirSoft replica can be a big help here in the privacy of your own home and you can practice with what cover might be available to you in a "home invasion" scenario. I tell my wife that if the alarm goes off, grab the gun and hunker down in the bathtub or behind the toilet (depends on which bathroom is closest) and be ready to shoot when they come through the door!

It may be financially difficult to buy both initially, but if you practice as much as you should, a 9mm version of your .40 or .45 carry gun will pay for itself with savings in practice ammo costs, and as I said save wear and tear on your carry gun. I like to shoot my carry gun and its expensive JHP ammo periodically after actually carrying it at increasingly infrequent intervals after I've broken it in and no less than once a year after its passed all the shorter interval tests.

I own the 9mm Shield and use it as my primary carry weapon. I find the recoil no different than my full size Glock 17. And accuracy is very good for a small handgun.

9mm, with Magguts +2 kit you are 10+1, for max CA ammo load.

cal44mag wrote:
S&W Shield -- 9 mm or 40 cal?

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9 mm.

Both are adequate self-defense cartridges, but the 9 mm is readily available and cheaper so you're likely to practice more and thus be more proficient with the weapon and more likely to deliver accurate fire should you ever have to use it.

It's like the title of the World War II training booklet says, "Hits Count!".

JO JO said:

So when dealing with +p or +p+ why not just step up in caliber instead of trying to make something into something it's not designed to do, it's pushing a gun past safety guidelines and the recoil is on par or greater than the next caliber up, I have never understood this, if you are happy with 9mm performance with Sami guidelines get the 9mm if you want the 40 performance get the 40 it's all trade off's the shield is a good shooter in both choices

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I agree. If you want high velocity then buy a gun chambered for a cartridge meant to do so like 357 sig, Super 38,or even a 10mm. Don't put super hot ammo through a gun and expect it be maintenance free for a lifetime. Yes, you may lose a round or two buy going with the 357 sig or 10mm, but is it really going to matter? Hitting your target on the first shot seems like a lot bigger concern to me.

HexHead said:

Even the FBI is dropping .40 in favor of 9mm. How much more do you need to know?

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When "Federal" is in an agency's name, I tend to not really put a lot of stock in their choices. Their motivations are often based on political reasons that have no basis in field practicality or desired outcomes, on cost cutting measures that involve contracts that are chosen based on "Lowest Acceptable Bid" mentality, and higher level managers do things based on how they think it will influence their year end performance appraisal.

Trust me. Ask me how I know........

Get the 40 forget the recoil, don' t have much time for the 9mm.

Full disclosure: I carry & daily shoot a Glock 29 10mm with hot loads.

You're already a 9mm guy. So what's real question here?