Scenario II

I would dial 911 first and alert law enforcement. I would exit the washroom cautiously. I would not have my gun in my hand. The shot could be a police officer's weapon, or a very exited shooter with a victim on the floor. Only being one shot could easily indicate either a suicide, or the shooting is over; *and* the bad guy might be the one on the floor, I wouldn't want to shoot the CCW who took him out. See the shooter assess, then decide on action if needed.
My entry into the hallway or next room would be as inconspicuous as as possible, so if the gunman was still engaged, or ready to shoot again, my entry into the room would ideally be unnoticed. Making eye contact with my loved one(s) would help me assess what the situation. Another shot would cause me to draw and engage if feasible.(active shooter) However drawing against a drawn gun would most likely not be something I would attempt.

JeffG put it better than I would have done. I like to think that's exactly what I would have done - had I kept my composure and thought it through that logically.

One of the first rules in thinking about applying first aid training is to make sure you don't become a victim (and before you can have the chance to actually help anyone else).

If you're safely secure in a position/place where you can alert 911, that's an immediate action you can take that could well save lives. Including the lives of any family members outside the restroom. Charging out into the unknown situation may just serve to add yourself to any victim count already underway, or even startle some armed robbery (murder? kidnap? or whatever) suspect into more shooting, including more people.

Obviously, just having a gun and not being trained in such a suspected dynamic situation (let alone have acquired some experience in applying that training) places you at a disadvantage. Rushing to make mistakes can have deadly consequences. No do-overs, either.

As was already mentioned, there are ways to make the presence of a handgun less obvious without sacrificing the ability to act, if needed.

Also, as Jeff so eloquently and succinctly put it, being able to maintain composure (including using good judgment and making good decisions) is mindset, mindset, mindset. Stress inoculation can be a good thing in this regard.

If you can develop the presence of mind to maintain composure, not freezing yourself into disbelief or rushing without thought into making grave mistakes, then you might be better able to try and utilize any tactics and skills that may be at your disposal.

BTW, having spent my fair share of years wearing a badge, my answer to this sort of question would be ... it depends. Really. Even with all my LE training & experience, including my LE firearms instructor & tactics training and experience ... it's just going to depend. On a lot of things. Things that may change moment by moment. That's even if carrying a weapon (maybe 2?), a cellphone and a powerful mini light.

One of the things I always think about is the potential presence of some other lawfully armed citizen at the scene of something violent and nasty occurring, be it a CCW licensee, or an active (off-duty) or retired cop ... and either of us mistaking the other for a "suspect", meaning a second (third, etc) suspect, even if the actual suspect is identifiable.

FWIW, while a lot of folks becoming interested in what might be involved in different "what if?" situations/scenarios, it's not unusual for lesser trained folks to try and formulate "scenarios", when they're really trying to frame questions they may have in their minds about tactics and skillset issues.

Work to learn, develop and master a working understanding of the laws, a solid foundation skillset and practical (solo) tactics, and then the "answer" to different "scenarios" starts to become more a matter of being able to figure out what part of your available knowledge, skillset and tactics would seem more relevant to any particular situation.

Looking for "situational answers" to varieties of "what if?" situations ought not distract from working to develop the individual, meaning to learn the skills, ingrain the mindset and acquire the necessary knowledge ... and then work to learn to be able to apply those "lessons" to whatever circumstances and conditions may come your way.

Almost everything about my reaction to this gunshot would depend on the layout of the restaurant. If the restroom door opened directly into the main restaurant area, I'd be looking for a window. I might even do that before calling 911, it depends.

It all depends on things like, if there is any true cover I can reach. Is there any way to assess the scene without being seen? Did that restroom door make noise when I opened it the first time? Can I hear what is transpiring out there without opening the door, or just cracking it? (How many are there, what is the mental state of the shooter, etc). Would I be able to see my loved one from that doorway (line of sight). Is there someone else in the restroom with me panicking or that I can plan with? Was there a way to get to the kitchen or other area to create a distraction?

There's really no way for me to answer what I'd do without knowing the layout of the restaurant but this is a good reminder to do more than just check for the exits when going somewhere.

Already did that pre thought planning.
My response is to take off my shirt that covers my gun,covering the gun and to walk out as casual as possible .
With the intent of getting between my loved one and the shooter.
I am pretty sure my 'loved one' will not react in a proper manner [ yea ,I know my wife ].
And my only job is to try and make her as safe as I possibly can.
I do believe that having actual LEO experience,and lots of range and force on force training would be important in my decision.
I am positive that at least a few will not see it my way = that is just fine with me.
IF there is any way I could avoid using my gun = be SURE that will be my first plan.

scaatylobo wrote:
My response is to take off my shirt that covers my gun,covering the gun and to walk out as casual as possible.

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Let me get this straight.

You are going to take off your shirt, use it to cover your gun and then walk out of the restroom expecting that a shirtless man with a rag wrapped around his hand suddenly appearing in view is not going to attract attention?

And if, as JeffG noted, the shot had come from an LEO who is now hyper-vigilant, doesn't a shirtless man attempting to conceal a gun in his shirt suddenly emerging from a restroom become a target?

hdwhit said:

Let me get this straight.

You are going to take off your shirt, use it to cover your gun and then walk out of the restroom expecting that a shirtless man with a rag wrapped around his hand suddenly appearing in view is not going to attract attention?

And if, as JeffG noted, the shot had come from an LEO who is now hyper-vigilant, doesn't a shirtless man attempting to conceal a gun in his shirt suddenly emerging from a restroom become a target?

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HUH, why would you guess that I don't wear a COVER shirt ?.
And if my gun is COVERED,why would an LEO see me as a threat.

I was an LEO,and I am using my skills to respond as best as possible.

And your response to the threat would be ??.

I will not be "shirtless,I will NOT have a "rag" wrapped around by hand either..

Want to blast at me from another angle - enjoy.

I think we all have envisioned how our own "gunfight" would go.
In reality, is there ever a right answer? At least that you could know from inside a restroom?
Being in the bathroom and hearing a gunshot while my wife was in the restaurant... Wow. I would feel horrible dread and at such a disadvantage. All of you have brought up great points on how your gunfight would go. I would do absolutely anything to keep my wife safe even if it meant putting myself at risk, I'm sure all of us here would do the same thing.

I think I would try calling her on the phone 1st to see if you could get an idea of what is actually happening? If she answers- All is good and I have the info available to make the next decision based on her assessment. If she didn't answer or text me before I called her I would have to say damn the torpedoes, dial 911, put the phone on speaker and stick it in my shirt pocket and go. My life is worth giving up to make sure she is safe and if something were to happen to her while I was "waiting" in the bathroom to do something or help to arrive, well that is something I could not live with.
Great topic and very thought provoking. Hopefully if this ever happens, we are at the same chicken shack together and none of us have to worry- the threat would be over quickly and I could finish peeing in peace. Kidding of course, thanks for the brain stimulating situation.

Call 911 first. Text family next, ask if they see anything. Attempt to remove family
from the threat, if at all possible, to beat a safe retreat. Try to avoid a confrontation,
just get out of there, quickly and quietly.

Danoobie said:

Call 911 first. Text family next, ask if they see anything. Attempt to remove family
from the threat, if at all possible, to beat a safe retreat. Try to avoid a confrontation,
just get out of there, quickly and quietly.

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Interesting. I dont think I'd call or text my loved one. A couple of people have written this. You know they'd react to it, even if the attacker(s) didnt hear it...which they may.

I often worry about the fact that MY phone could give ME away at any time in a deadly or stealthy situation. I wouldnt want to call attention to others in jeopardy.

With all the other dings, bells, tweets, and whistles in a noisy restaurant,
I would think communication would be in order, without drawing too much attention to them.
Let's face it, it's a chance to know more critical info before exiting a blind spot. Chances have to be taken, under the circumstances..

Danoobie said:

With all the other dings, bells, tweets, and whistles in a noisy restaurant,
I would think communication would be in order, without drawing too much attention to them.
Let's face it, it's a chance to know more critical info before exiting a blind spot. Chances have to be taken, under the circumstances..

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I would say a gunshot in a restaurant would bring all noise producing activity to at least a temporary standstill.

For starters I would draw low ready strong side retention. If door opened inward, weak side foot against door shifting weight to it, ear to the door briefly to try and hear any verbals that might give me a clue as to what was going on. If door opened outwards and had a knob or handle I would hold that firmly in closing position as possible. All with minimum exposure to any bullets that might come through it.

If all I could hear was screaming or unintelligable shouting I would call 911, while attempting to keep the door held shut if possible.

And there is a plan B.....

Plan B would depend on the size, layout and features of the restroom, whether it was brick and tile (any partial walls jutting out that equalled cover), lights and switches, etc

If audible verbal clues indicated it was a robbery, I would hold off on 911 - leave that to one of the cooks or other staff in the kitchen. All I want in hand at that point is my pistol with both hands after creating conditions in my favor. Turn off lights. Place flashlight on urinal, sink or other suitable fixture focussed on door. Take cover if on opposite side of room with pistol aimed at door. Or mount commode in stall if on opposite side of the room as close wall as possible aiming at door. Listen. And wait. Any covered face appears, he's a gonner. Most likely anyone with a weapon in hand, unless in uniform, a gonner.

The second I perceive they are leaving, I might think of moving to the door and having a peek depending if it afforded a view of at least some seated guests to look for signs of post robbery behaviour; movement, body language, attention focus, conversation etc.

During the robbery of a restaurant it is unlikely, albeit certainly possible anyone is going to check the bathroom. It's a potential trap for them if police suddenly arrive. Generally they want the cash drawer, wallets, purses etc and then to get out as quickly as possible.

One more thing - I am going to start carrying earplugs

One more thing part 2 - you text your wife whoever and it is a robbery, they might spot her looking at her phone or doing whatever else with it to text you, immediately interpret that as an attempt to call the police and shoot her out of hand.

RPZ said:

I would say a gunshot in a restaurant would bring all noise producing activity to at least a temporary standstill.

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Exactly, they'd have everyone's attention. Most likely everyone would freeze.

I'd dial 911, then untuck my shirt to readily access my tuckable IWB and CAUTIOUSLY look outside, with my phone in my left hand and still connected to 911. I would keep the 911 operator updated, and draw and fire ONLY to save my life or my wire's.

Having been too close to this situation already.
I can PROMISE you that I am NOT taking out my metrosexual connection [ cell phone ] until I am sure that my LOVED ONE is as safe as can possibly under dire circumstances.
Everybody has a plan ----- until the gun fire erupts.
I can only pray that none of you find out ,but react is what you will do.
The cell phone is a "reaction" that I have not learned yet.

In 1967, when I was an adviser to the ARVN, a convoy from the 11th ACR was ambushed at Soui Cat. Throughout the action, the platoon leader did not send a single radio transmission -- except accidentally when he thought he was keying the intercom. Fortunately, a radio operation heard him say, "Hard right! Hard right! Move out!" and deduced he was in trouble.

Your most potent weapon is your commo system. Never forget your cell phone.

I can PROMISE you that I am NOT taking out my metrosexual connection [ cell phone ]

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Yeah, why would you take the path of least resistance and attempt to use the cell phone first (which seems like the most sensible solution under the circumstances), when you can walk out shirtless with a towel wrapped around your gun. Your way seems much better than the "metrosexual connection" <eyeroll>

OC-Trainer said:

Yeah, why would you take the path of least resistance and attempt to use the cell phone first (which seems like the most sensible solution under the circumstances), when you can walk out shirtless with a towel wrapped around your gun. Your way seems much better than the "metrosexual connection" <eyeroll>

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If your wife is in a restaurant with two, three, five badguys with guns eyeing people while they collect wallets, purses etc, the last thing she wants is her phone singing that she has a new text message, and/or getting caught texting back. Even the shirtless thing might be smarter if you cared anything about your wife.

RPZ said:

If your wife is in a restaurant with two, three, five badguys with guns eyeing people while they collect wallets, purses etc, the last thing she wants is her phone singing that she has a new text message, and/or getting caught texting back. Even the shirtless thing might be smarter if you cared anything about your wife.

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Ahh -- you use the cell phone to call 911, not your wife.

Vern Humphrey said:

Ahh -- you use the cell phone to call 911, not your wife.

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Exactly.