odd shooting style.

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I see no benefit in forcing a shooter to train or compete using a style or method that is less capable then other choices.

It sure would be a lot easier to shoot those weak hand stages any way you want and just about any pistol match with any rifle of your choice with no limits on capacity.

Competitions are ment to challenge the competitors, to find a victor who is most proficient. If you are a great runner and ride a bike like nobody's business but can't swim to save your life, don't enter a triathlon. Find a game where you can "do your stuff".
 
The first link is High Compressed Ready and, as I've already stated, is commonly taught in many classes as a Ready Position

The second link is Position Sul...comes from Brazil. Still taught in some schools, but has several weaknesses when used in other than it's intended application...moving in a crowd...and isn't really a practical combat ready position. Here is an article explaining how it became fashionable and often misunderstood http://blog.cuttingedgetraining.org/post/Why-Do-We-Teach-e2809cSule2809d-Position.aspx
not asking this to argue as you guys seem to have more knowledge of this style then me. The first link-"high compressed ready". Is this a at ready technique or a live fire technique. I could see holding the gun in a ready position and coming forward with it like i see a lot but actually shooting like the picture 3 rounds doesn't make sense for marksmanship to me.
 
Nope, I'm referring to defensive shooting. Both current LE doctrine and what top tier trainers are teaching


I'm going on what I was taught and learned over a 28 year LE career as well as training that I personally paid for...from people who have been on a two-way shooting range and had the insight to understand the lessons involved and a willingness to pass on that knowledge.


Sounds like they have extrapolated incorrectly or confused conflicting concepts of liability.

While you are responsible for every shot that you fire, I'm not familiar with any creditable defensive firearms trainer who teaches to stop shooting and access after each shot. That would be the height of irresponsibility in that field. If you'd name them, I'd be interested in researching their basis of teaching or reasoning
You mentioned looking at targets between shots as a common bad habit. Now you go on to say it s in your police experience over x years. So are you talking about this being a common bad habit among POs, everyone else, or all of the above?
 
Perhaps I wasn't posting clearly

Looking at the target between shots is a habit among newer, or less trained, shooters. (There are even "instructor tricks" for detecting it along a firing line) In newer shooters, it usually causes anticipation and "shot stringing." Additional training usually overcomes this flaw in technique

To teach this, deliberately looking between each shot, as a defensive technique, is what I consider irresponsible and dangerous
 
not asking this to argue as you guys seem to have more knowledge of this style then me. The first link-"high compressed ready". Is this a at ready technique or a live fire technique. I could see holding the gun in a ready position and coming forward with it like i see a lot but actually shooting like the picture 3 rounds doesn't make sense for marksmanship to me.

No problem. Asking about a technique previously unknown to you is how we learn new things. It is both, it is a fighting technique.

You will most commonly see it as a searching/moving technique, a way to have you gun out and ready without exposing it to being grabbed or deflected.

As a more advanced CQB technique, hopefully once you already have trigger management skills, you should be able to shoot from this position very quickly and quite accurately out to about 3 yards. It is meant for rounding a corner and engaging without having to extend your gun or bring it up to eye level. It shouldn't have to move forward/out at all. You should think of it as a Retention position after the gun has been drawn for the holster

This is the advantage that High Compressed Ready has over both Low Ready and Position SUL...lack of movement needed to initiate engagement
 
Perhaps I wasn't posting clearly

Looking at the target between shots is a habit among newer, or less trained, shooters. (There are even "instructor tricks" for detecting it along a firing line) In newer shooters, it usually causes anticipation and "shot stringing." Additional training usually overcomes this flaw in technique

To teach this, deliberately looking between each shot, as a defensive technique, is what I consider irresponsible and dangerous
Gotcha. Seen this too; dropping the muzzle slightly, raising it again, sometimes accompanied by a slight grip readjusting.

As far as defensive shooting I can't name specific schools but it has been an observation from two decades of reading online discussions. I've seen it enough that it is clear they are getting this from somewhere. I'm thinking some CHL instructors. Me, I have never come across in my professional training.
 
I can't name specific schools but it has been an observation from two decades of reading online discussions. I've seen it enough that it is clear they are getting this from somewhere.
Perhaps you can name an author that I can trace back for their credentials

I'm thinking some CHL instructors. Me, I have never come across in my professional training.
If you haven't the actual experience or an understanding of the base reasoning, why repeat it here as creditable advice/technique?
 
Perhaps you can name an author that I can trace back for their credentials


If you haven't the actual experience or an understanding of the base reasoning, why repeat it here as creditable advice/technique?
These were just discussions on forums like this one several years ago. Have only just come back here recently due to the long-term illness of my wife. It was quite a common injection. My recollection is that it was based on the premise that you shoot until your hostile is no longer a threat, and that did not necessarily mean until they were flat on the ground.

I have plenty of training and experience; I was simply pointing out that it was evident that quite a few people seem have been schooled that way by someone based on those discussions. I neither advocate it nor do I say it is absolutely not without any merit.

Quick search pulled this up...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-charges-into-the-past.798640/#post-10184247
 
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No problem. Asking about a technique previously unknown to you is how we learn new things. It is both, it is a fighting technique.

You will most commonly see it as a searching/moving technique, a way to have you gun out and ready without exposing it to being grabbed or deflected.

As a more advanced CQB technique, hopefully once you already have trigger management skills, you should be able to shoot from this position very quickly and quite accurately out to about 3 yards. It is meant for rounding a corner and engaging without having to extend your gun or bring it up to eye level. It shouldn't have to move forward/out at all. You should think of it as a Retention position after the gun has been drawn for the holster

This is the advantage that High Compressed Ready has over both Low Ready and Position SUL...lack of movement needed to initiate engagement
Economy of motion is generally a good thing. I would not want to holding a handgun in that position rounding a corner though.
 
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I looked at all the linked threads/posts and I'm not seeing any strong avocation for accessing after each shot. What I am seeing are several folks disparage the practice. BTW: I think the SFPD policy of accessing after every two shots is based on a flawed understanding of the dynamics of a shooting. Remember that the national hit ratio average is only about 30%

I've attended a lot of advanced training and can't recall any trainer instructing students to stop shooting before the subject has ceased to be a threat...there was a lot of discussion of when that point occurred and the consensus usually arrived at was that it depended on your ability to articulate the thread and justification
 
I would not want to holding a handgun in that position rounding a corner though.
You should give it a try on the range. It is based on the same principles as point shooting...they've just added a retention factor...you're just pointing with your body rather than your hand/arm
 
Ah the late Bob Muden always humble and a great "rentention" shooter.

 
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I looked at all the linked threads/posts and I'm not seeing any strong avocation for accessing after each shot. What I am seeing are several folks disparage the practice. BTW: I think the SFPD policy of accessing after every two shots is based on a flawed understanding of the dynamics of a shooting. Remember that the national hit ratio average is only about 30%

I've attended a lot of advanced training and can't recall any trainer instructing students to stop shooting before the subject has ceased to be a threat...there was a lot of discussion of when that point occurred and the consensus usually arrived at was that it depended on your ability to articulate the thread and justification
The avocation is not strong, but it is there, and it came from sonewhere.

The arguments become, where does the threat end on a case by case basis. But I can see that shooting until a subject drops to the ground in all cases might be a problem.
 
You should give it a try on the range. It is based on the same principles as point shooting...they've just added a retention factor...you're just pointing with your body rather than your hand/arm
I get that. Perhaps the outside corner of a building on solid level ground or concrete. Otherwise would depend on "the corner". A doorway or entranceway inside building - it's proximity to a corner to the wall structure or other items etc. Or at the top of a staircase.
 
I remember firing from high compressed going around in the late 90's, calling it "center mass drive" or something like that...? The idea being a guy could get their first shots off as the two hands come together at high compressed, and continue to shoot as you create space and extend to a standard isosceles position. I remember getting emails of videos, since YouTube wasn't yet a thing. Nothing more than point shooting, reliant upon symmetrical position and natural point of aim for a given hold - but supposedly more natural than hip shooting from a high draw retention position.
 
The arguments become, where does the threat end

And that's where you get the "lookers" because a properly engaged cardboard target looks exactly like a missed one except for the little holes that may or may not be there and many shooters seem unable to "call" their shots.
 
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