Sig P220 10mm Range Report/Impressions

So I finally had a chance to hit the range and shoot my new 220 in 10mm yesterday.

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This is not going to be a comprehensive range report, but just my initial impressions.

I sat down on a lane and pulled out a sandbag. It is nice and scorched up now, so it at least looks respectable. I wanted to do some accuracy testing and see where the gun hits. Prior to this, all of my semi auto shooting has been done with a simple two handed thumbs forward hold. However after buying a 10mm, and observing the incredible variety of bullet weights that can be found, I decided I needed a little bit of steadying in order to find out what this particular gun likes.

I realized that a 3" barrel 357 magnum was the loudest gun I had ever shot at an indoor range. In an enclosed environment, it's all I really wanted to shoot. However, I shoot a 460 magnum and I've had a concern about my ear protection in the long run even though I shoot that gun outside. I always have used earplugs rated at 30 NR rating. I don't know if they are adequate or not, but I decided I didn't care. I picked up a pair of Walker's Razor on sale at my local big box store.



They aren't anything special, but they functioned as advertised, and gave me peace of mind. They are only 23 NR rated, but by combining them with earplugs, I should be just fine.

Anyway, I loaded up two magazines with 5 shots each. I was shooting Sig Sauer's 180 gr ammo. I started out in single action as I just wanted to see how the gun grouped, and was only shooting at 10 yards. I was kind of shocked, and not in a good way. My first shot was 1.5 inches left, and 1 inch low. So I figured it was a flinch. You know, the anticipation of a new gun and the expected recoil of a powerful cartridge. So, I took a deep breath and fired again at the same POA, and really focused on my sight picture hard, and did so for the following three shots.

Well, my group looked like a pattern and I was ashamed to even have it hanging on the cardboard. After deciding that I was a terrible person and didn't deserve to own any of my guns, I buckled down and really focused with all of the concentration I could muster. I fired 100 rounds slowly and did manage to tighten up my groups quite a bit. However, I did find that no matter what I did to keep my sights level, and avoid flinching, I was hitting low and left, and I did not get very good accuracy even when shooting from the sandbag.

The tightest group I measured was 1.318" at only 7 yards. This is unacceptable to me and I of course blamed myself. Terrible, just terrible. That group should be one raged hole at that short of a distance and not be much more than three quarters of an inch in diameter.

Then I considered the following things. This is my first Sig pistol, and I have not even had a chance for real dry fire practice. I mean seriously, I haven't because I just got back from an international trip, and then had my dad visiting for a week. So I picked it up, cleaned it, and then it sat in the box for a week and a half.

As I said earlier, I was excited and have never fired a 10mm before. While shooting one is no different than shooting any other gun, the anticipation can throw me off.

I drank an entire pot of coffee that morning, like a genius. I have no doubt I was jerking the trigger as a result, and my hands did feel a bit shaky when I was loading magazines. I didn't feel particularly twitchy, but I had a serious caffeine crash later, so it was clearly having an impact.

It is entirely possible that my gun doesn't care for 180 gr ammo, as I still find the accuracy to be disturbing, even considering the previously listed factors. Unfortunately, there was no other 10mm ammo available for me to try. I also thought the POI was lower than it should have been, so next go around I may try some 200 gr ammo to see if it brings the POI up a bit. I want to carry at least 200 gr ammo anyway, so I'm not overly worried about it at this point.

I also noted, as usual, I had too much finger on the trigger. This is a very common issue for me, as I have larger hands, being a somewhat larger guy. As a result, keeping my thumbs out of the way of the slide stop is a consistent issue, and all my guns have had user induced failures to lock back the slide at some point or another.

So then I shot 50 rounds in a standing two handed hold, and I was able to punch the center of the target out. It wasn't terribly pretty, but it sufficed.

The final 50 rounds I decided to shoot as quickly as I can. The point of this gun for me is protection on the trail, so speed is important. Again, it wasn't pretty, but I was able to pick the gun up, and empty the magazine into the target at 10 yards quickly enough to defend myself.

Shooting fast at 10 yards, there were some flyers, but I started putting the rounds through the same hole, and managed to keep the rounds on the black, with that one at the bottom slipping off a bit. The other holes on the white target were from earlier shots. You can see how I was all over the place, especially in the beginning.


So the bottom line is have a lot of work to do before I consider myself even moderately competent with this gun. This is the absolute worst I have ever shot a new gun out of the box before. However, I am pretty convinced it was all my fault. Next time, much less coffee will be drank. I will bring a variety of ammo to try also. And I'll try to keep my stupid finger on the trigger as it is supposed to be.

All 200 rounds fed, fired, and ejected perfectly.

The slide failed to lock back, until I locked my right thumb down. So that's all me.

The recoil was very manageable IMO. The web of my hand was a little sore after 200 rounds, but I happily would have kept shooting with more ammo. I don't think anyone would have trouble managing this gun given it's size and weight. Some will have more tolerance than others for the recoil and muzzle rise, but the weight of the gun makes it very shootable.

The sights are great also by the way. Sig night sites are nice.

I hesitated to even write this, given how poorly I shot, but it's a learning experience and honesty is important for people considering this gun. I'll post on this thread again when I've had a chance to shoot a bit more and have any relevant data. In the mean time, anyone wondering about this gun, ask away.

Hanzo581 said:

Are you shooting competitions or something? I mean I understand the strive for accuracy but you're being kind of hard on yourself for something that's supposed to be fun. If that's a self defense pistol those shots would be plenty effective especially give the caliber.

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No I don't compete against other shooters. Group competitions of any kind have never interested me. I'm not a sports fan.

However, my general philosophy with any life skill is that every time I do something, I want to do it better than the last time in some way. So in essence, I am very competitive with myself, and after several years of shooting, I am finally at a point where I feel like I need to buy a shot clock in order to test myself.

I have shot, and consistently shoot a lot better than this, but as I stated, I realize now that there were a few factors that were inhibiting me. They were mostly self induced, but not all. So what I take from that is I need to view my experience and shooting skills in two separate ways. I need to look at my overall fundamental skills, which I feel are in good shape. But I also need to view my overall competency with a particular gun as an individual set of assessment criteria. I should not look at my first time shooting a new to me gun as an indicator that my shooting skills stink.

I agree, in a SD situation, the target would have been in bad shape afterwards. But when dealing with a dangerous, fast moving animal, like a bear or a moose, shot placement becomes extremely important. (It's always extremely important.) So I strive for greater accuracy in the future.

bannockburn said:

460Shooter

I agree with Hanzo581 in that I also think you're being unduly hard on yourself the first time out with a not only a brand new pistol but a new to you SIG pistol. Different ergonomics and design features that might factor in to your initial shooting experience as well. And the new gun's in 10mm., a bit of a powerhouse cartridge to start things off with. On the plus side the gun operated flawlessly, the recoil was very manageable, and the sights were great.

So please let us know how things go next time out (hopefully with a commensurate decrease in caffeine consumption that day), and hopefully shooter and pistol can find a common ground with some better groups.

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Thanks for the words of encouragement. Yes, I think in hind sight I was a bit hard on myself. I'm going to treat it as a learning experience.

It's just hard when I know I can and do consistently shoot a lot better than this. But in this particular case, I was a little too revved up for my own good, and did not acknowledge the impact of the new to me ergos and cartridge.

I'm not giving up. 10 mm is a cartridge I've wanted to master for a long time. It just isn't going to happen over night or on the first range session.

I was indoors

It is a SA/DA gun.

Honestly I'm a bit disappointed with the trigger. When I first got the gun the trigger felt a little heavy to me and slightly gritty. Now that I've shot it a bit I am definitely noticing that it is smoothing out and getting a bit lighter. I'd estimate the DA pull when I first got the gun to be 11-12 lbs. That's heavier than I like. But after 200 rounds through the gun and maybe 200 dry fires, I'd say it has dropped to 10-11 lbs and is much smoother.

The SA pull started maybe around 6-7 lbs, and is now sitting at about 5-6 lbs. I suspect it will get drop a bit more.

Please note, I do not have a trigger gauge, so these are very rough estimates. I've also been shooting S&W SA/DA revolver triggers, a Wilson tuned trigger, and an HK LEM trigger for awhile now. So I think my perception is a little skewed.

There is no over travel. However, my example does have a bit of trigger creep, and I'm not real happy about that. Take up is fine, but I don't care for a lot of creep. BUT, I haven't broken the gun in yet. Breaking the gun in isn't going to get rid of the creep, but it may smooth it our a little.

It's important to note that I bought this gun for trail usage and big critter protection, so while the trigger isn't ideal, it is very serviceable for it's intended purpose. If you wanted to hunt with this gun, I recommend the SAO model.

After maybe shooting this gun for a year, I will reassess my liking for the trigger. If it is still not what I want it to be, I may send it to Bruce Gray for some trigger work.

Finally after several months hiatus, I was able to get my P220 out again. I only put 100 rounds through it, but I can confidently say that the initial issues were a function of needing more dry fire practice and having a death grip on the gun. I loosened up this time and shot the gun much better than last time. The trigger has also smoothed out even further, so I think it just needed breaking in. This go around I was shooting a steel rifle spinner at 20 yards. I was flipping that thing all over the place.

It's a Taylor target with feet meant to be stepped into the ground. It's a nice target, but unfortunately at that distance, the 180 grain bullets kept knocking it out of the ground and tipping it over. So I'll need a few sand bags for the front. I think it's a 5" steel plate. The steel held up with no problems.

I also shot 215 rounds through my HK VP9, and had a great time doing it. That gun is just easy to shoot well and fast.

murf said:

take a 22lr semi-auto with you next time you go to the range. switch to it immediately after a good/bad session with your 10mm. a lot of what you are doing right/wrong with your ten millimeter will transfer over to the 22lr pistol and will be easier to see/correct.

it is also good to take a break from a hard kicking handgun (punishing recoil), yet still work on your basic shooting skills. going back and forth with the two pistols makes learning how to shoot the 10mm easier, imo.

luck,

murf

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I got rid of my semiauto .22 a few years ago because it didn't do it for me anymore. I realized I didn't care about shooting 22lr in general. I'm a bit of a recoil junky I guess as I've been shooting an X Frame since 2009.

However, the general principle I agree with, but I just choose a 9mm as my light recoil training gun. Like I said above, I had my VP9 with me, and I did switch up and back between it and the 10mm. The problem with my first session was that I had a death grip on the gun because I was anticipating recoil. I believe I was inadvertently flexing my hand while pulling the trigger also, attempting to keep my grip firm. It's a newbie, poor trigger control mistake.

Once I relaxed my gun hand, focused on a good trigger squeeze and less on the recoil, and gripped more tightly with my support hand, my shots began hitting where I wanted. I learned a lot about this particular gun on this range trip.

My life has changed a lot in the last year and my range visits have been less frequent than in the past. The part that sucks is that my girlfriend shoots too, and we want to shoot more frequently, but social obligation and life planning has had us occupied elsewhere. So my fundamentals slipped a bit.

00blkgt said:

Do you mind sharing what the purchase price was? Can you share any updates on this pistol since you have more time with it now? I have just started considering this pistol and I appreciate your insight.

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Sure.

I got mine on GunBroker new in box. I paid $1189 for it as that was the best price I could find for a new one. So with shipping and transfer fees it was about $1225.

You can check out the specs on Sig Sauer's website. It's a big heavy gun, but if you're going to shoot properly loaded 10mm ammo, that's exactly what you want. The recoil isn't unisjing in this gun so far, but there is some decent muzzle rise with Sig 180 feet ammo. That can be overcome though.

The Pirranah grip is very aggressively textured and some folks may not like it. It seems to work great. The gun doesn't move around st all in my hand.

It's accurate. The trigger is smoothing out nicely. The night sites seem dialed in with 180 grain ammo.

The only down side is the capacity, but that really doesn't concern me. For my purposes 9 rounds is fine.

I am excited to try some hot loads of different bullet weights. However I am writing this in an airport, waiting for my international flight to leave. So money will be a little tight and an ammo order will have to wait.

If the Legion version had been available when I was looking to buy, I would've gone that way, as I prefer the finish. But they also want more money for that version, so I'm content.

If they ever build a P227 in 10mm, I plan to buy one.

Do you have specific questions?