Deer rifle for the desert?

When I started deer hunting I also thought I wouldn't take any shots beyond 150 yards. But different hunting locations have yielded ranges beyond 150 yards, and I have since taken measures to make longer shots.

If you like the 45-70, then by all means go ahead and buy it. I have no reasons not to get a 45-70. But if you want to give yourself the most deer hunting options based on rifle selection, then you should also get a rifle chambered for a traditional deer hunting cartridge.

If your willing to keep shots under 200yds no reason not to get the .45-70 if you want one, deer huntings as good an excuse as any

I scratched the .45-70 itch with a .458 socom upper, which comes close performance wise. I offten take both my 6.5 and .458 uppers when i go now, and swap then depending on the spot i happen to decide to hunt.

Like my home state of Nevada, Arizona's mountain country and deserts are places where long range cartridges fill a need.I would suggest a 30 06 or a 270 at minimum, or a 7mm Mag if you don't mind the extra recoil. A 45- 70 can make shots out to 400 yds+,but requires much more dedication and skill from the shooter, than a scoped, bolt action 30 06.

When I do hunt, it's in high desert country and ranges get pretty long. I just bring a 243 with 100gr Core Lokts.

A 45-70 could definitely work, but with all the flat-shooting rounds that will basically hit point of aim out to 300 yards, I don't know why I'd bother with one.

For a dedicated deer rifle I wouldn't get a 45-70. I'd get a 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor, .257 Roberts, .270, 7mm-08, 7x57, 30-06 or .308. Any of them would do great.

If I wanted a 45-70 I'd get one first, then get a deer rifle as funds allowed.

any good reasons for me to NOT get a .45-70?

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Expensive ammo

Excessive recoil way out of proportion to killing power.

While an experienced shooter can make hits on game out past 200 yards the 45-70 just takes it to a more difficult level than necessary. It is best used within 100 yards. The 45-70 is one of those rounds for experienced shooters who want to hunt at a handicap to make the hunt more challenging. I've had several over the years and wouldn't go back. I certainly wouldn't recommend one to a novice hunter.

Even at only 100 yards a 45-70 bullet will be several inches above or below your aiming point increasing the difficulty of making a hit. With black powder equivalent loads from the 1870's you are looking at recoil levels approaching 300 WM and a 243 with good bullets will do the same job. With the hotter modern loads recoil is approaching 458 WM recoil levels and it won't kill anything a 30-06 wouldn't kill.

The 45-70 is one of the most over rated cartridges out there. Your 6.5 Grendel would be a far better option for any game animal. If you want to buy a dedicated hunting rifle buy a bolt gun in any caliber from 243 on up to as big as you want. Since you're already into 6.5's a 6.5 Creedmoor would be an excellent choice as would a 308 or 7-08.

There is a lot of mythology about the 45-70. It was introduced in 1873 as a military rifle to be used during the indian wars. It was not particularly successful and was replaced by 1893 and quickly became obsolete. The 30-30 introduced in 1895 was, and is more effective. It was never used as a buffalo hunting round for a couple of reasons. #1 it wasn't powerful enough plus most of the buffalo were killed off 20 years before it was introduced.

That 45-70 is WAY more than you need for a deer. Expensive ammo, and a lot of recoil that you just don't need in your life for what you are doing. In Az. I imagine you will have opportunities for longer shots. Just cause you don't feel up to it now doesn't mean the opportunity won't be there later. I would advise 308.

45-70 to me is more of a bear gun, I have a friend that owns one, the recoil can be a bear depending on load.

270, 30-06, 243 or even 308 are better deer rifles i my opinion

d

I've deer hunted for about 50 years. Indiana wood lots where ranges are typically short. Except when they're not. My friend used my .358 WSSM AR to kill a deer at a lasered 279 yards, standing in a plowed field.

I'd agree with the above. A long range cartridge will kill deer closer, but a short range cartridge isn't good at longer range. You just never know what you're gonna get into. I now use either the .358 or my .243. I see no reason to beat yourself up with a bigger round unless there's another reason to get one.

Seems that a .25-06, .243 ..260, etc should fill the bill. The hard thing is that deer never seem to understand the distance thing. Never seem to stand broadside at exactly 100 yards with the little orange bullseye thingy painted on their side.

Good morning
Our son lives out that away but in that over populated valley. So far his deer hunting has required shots not under 250 yards. You can pick up good used 308's and 30-06's for $200. Put a good scope on it and practice and you will be able to hit a corn cruncher at 300 yards.

We have several 45-70's and do not look at them as long range deer rifles. If you are willing to learn to hunt and use the draws and crawl you can get to 150 yards or less. If you want to you can set up near the water holes with cross sticks and pop deer. But first you need to learn a lot about that areas deer habits. Plus are there going to be other hunters causing all sorts of disturbances. It does not take much to convince deer to move on real fast.
Mike in Peru

.45-70 in the Marlin 1895 Guide Gun works well for me. This boy was at 250yrds, ran a few yards, jumped a fence, and crumpled. Hit with a factory 325FTX factory load, leaving at 1795fps. Based on his dressed weight and hanging weight, the processor said this guy would have gone 315-325 on the hoof.

The "excessive recoil" of the .45-70 is incredibly overplayed online. The recoil is heavy, but I'd shoot 100rnds out of that rifle, weighing about 8.5lbs as hunted, before I would out of a 9lb 300win mag.

The only realistic disadvantage I feel in hunting deer and coyotes with the .45-70 is the trajectory. I drop as much in my Guide Guns at 250yrds as I do in my standby .30-06 at 450. From a 100yrd zero, in winter at my elevation, my trajectory for every 25yrds 150-250 are 5", 10", 15", 22", and 30"... That's a lot of hold over for just a measly 250yrds. So keep that in mind as you plan hunting in AZ - I've only hunted in the Prescott and PHX areas, and shots COULD be a lot longer there than 150yrds.

Personally, I'd be happy using the .45-70, but recognize, while it has a lot more killing power upon impact than your Grendel, putting the power where it needs to go is a lot easier with that Grendel than it will be with the ol' Gov't. If you go in with your eyes wide open, and understand your trajectory, you'll be in fine style.

I moved from western Oregon in 1986 to Az, I have 2 30-06 I love, but after 3 years hunting here I got a 7mm mag only because I had so many shots at 300 yds plus. I can only remember one deer at less than 200 yards, and no Elk.
Get whatever you want, but desert Mulies are always on the move.
JD
PS those little whitails south of you run like jackrabbits.

primalmu said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think this year I'll stick with the Grendel, then possibly move up to a 6.5 CM in a bolt gun next year if necessary.

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Stick with the Grendel but grab a .260, unless you're running match bullets the cm loses velocity and brass availability, same bullets etc.........

primalmu said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think this year I'll stick with the Grendel, then possibly move up to a 6.5 CM in a bolt gun next year if necessary.

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That's a good decision IMO. That said, I'd look real hard at the used gun racks. I've shot hundreds and hundreds of rifles in my 66 years. I personally wouldn't care if it was a .243, a .30-06, or anything in between. I'd get a GOOD scope, a decent rifle, and practice. The deer really don't care what caliber they get whacked with.

Caliber wars are good fodder for internet gurus but mean little in the real world. Accuracy and your ability trump about anything caliber related. If you think there's really any meaningful difference in the real world between a .270 and a 7mm-08, you're only fooling yourself

Personally, I'd save money on the rifle and get a really nice scope. Actually, I've done that. Many times.

horsey300 said:

Stick with the Grendel but grab a .260, unless you're running match bullets the cm loses velocity and brass availability, same bullets etc.........

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For quite some time I've seen 6.5 Creedmoor brass be more available than .260, same for ammunition. Please explain how the Creedmoor loses velocity compared to the .260.

redneck2 said:

Personally, I'd save money on the rifle and get a really nice scope. Actually, I've done that. Many times.

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This.

The .45-70 is a very capable of thumping any game animal on earth, but it's not the best for light game like deer in situations where you want range - especially out west. This is a job for a standard bottleneck hunting cartridge.

cdb1 said:

For quite some time I've seen 6.5 Creedmoor brass be more available than .260, same for ammunition. Please explain how the Creedmoor loses velocity compared to the .260.

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It doesn't, the velocities for all bullets are indistinguishable between the
.260 and the CM, you'd get more variance between rifles. And at this point, where I buy ammo and cases, the 6.5 is a better bet availability-wise.

primalmu said:

I figure at my level of hunting skill (i.e. none), I probably shouldn't try to hit anything beyond 150 yards anyway

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The hunt isn't the shot. Once you're ready to press that trigger, your hunt is over. Knowing how to hunt is never going be the determinant factor in whether you accurately place a shot at 200, 300, 400 yards or further. That's just marksmanship.

I guess the point is, using a rifle that essentially requires you to limit your shots to closer ranges doesn't make you a safer, more ethical hunter. It might make you a better hunter, because you'll be forced to get close if you ever want to be successful, and that's the hard part. But you could put the same range limits on yourself if you were using a 270 or 30-06. The difference is that later, you wouldn't HAVE to put those limits on yourself.

I'm not a big deer hunter but several of my friends and coworkers eat breathe and sleep deer hunting here in Az. One thing they all agree on is that the southern Az Coues deer are a hard hunt. The hard part is they are small and blend into the brush really well. They are called "the grey ghost" for a reason. Extremely hard to stalk.

What they say is to have a flat shooting rifle. Doesn't need to be big as they are small, but you definitely want a flat trajectory. Getting a good stalk on one to get to a close range is highly unlikely.

My one friend hunts them often as many times there are left over tags down south. However he recently sptopped taking his 243 in favor of his AR because a good 223 will do the job and he runs into more coyotes (the two legged kind) than deer.

cdb1 said:

For quite some time I've seen 6.5 Creedmoor brass be more available than .260, same for ammunition. Please explain how the Creedmoor loses velocity compared to the .260.

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I think horseys point was that when you have available magazine and throat space the .260 can slightly out perform the CM. The .260 does have have a bit more capacity, but stuff a 140 into it a 2.8" and its almost exactly the same as a CM at 2.8.
Same issue suffered by the 6.5x55 or 6.5x284, worse for them tho, but again they are usually built on long action so it dosent matter.

Ive also seen more CM cases lately.
Making .260 from .243/7-08/.308 is a little easier than making CM brass, so case availability isnt a huge issue......

I forgot where I was going with that......bah, anyway i agree with the others on the getting a low cost larger small bore for deer. The CM would be a great choice with alot of very good low cost options. I happen to prefer the Rar or Howa 1500, but thats just me.

Your grendel should perform well on deer, ive shot 4 now with mine and while none were bang flops, all were dead inside of 50yds. Running 100grn balistic tips im actually coming pretty close to what winchester pp factory ammo did from my .243.

Dupe

LoonWulf said:

I think horseys point was that when you have available magazine and throat space the .260 can slightly out perform the CM. The .260 does have have a bit more capacity, but stuff a 140 into it a 2.8" and its almost exactly the same as a CM at 2.8.
Same issue suffered by the 6.5x55 or 6.5x284, worse for them tho, but again they are usually built on long action so it dosent matter.

Ive also seen more CM cases lately.
Making .260 from .243/7-08/.308 is a little easier than making CM brass, so case availability isnt a huge issue......

I forgot where I was going with that......bah, anyway i agree with the others on the getting a low cost larger small bore for deer. The CM would be a great choice with alot of very good low cost options. I happen to prefer the Rar or Howa 1500, but thats just me.

Your grendel should perform well on deer, ive shot 4 now with mine and while none were bang flops, all were dead inside of 50yds. Running 100grn balistic tips im actually coming pretty close to what winchester pp factory ammo did from my .243.

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I thought the Creedmoor was loaded to higher pressure than the .260 which also helps even things out, I could be wrong though.

My 6.5x55 is a long action thankfully.