The fate, or future, of an heirloom M70

I sure wouldn't rechamber. You're spending a lot of money to lose money on the value of the rifle. If I want something different, Id sell that one and buy something different. It's cheaper. And, the stamp on the barrel is wrong so it has to be redone.

Bolt head and magazine of the 54 and 70 Hornet are like nothing else.
G&H did some .222 conversions. I don't know if they would still do it but I bet it would be expensive. Col Townsend Whelen had one that had simply been rechambered. Probably took bolt face and extractor work. It would take one .222 in the unaltered Hornet magazine.

What sights did you use for shooting it in the past?
I don't see a 22G in the barrel lug.

It's still a collectible rifle, even with the wear from honest use and the rear bridge holes.
But since you are hanging onto it...

Options

Most logical is to let it sit.
Having a purpose for it is understandable, but it does not take up much space (and it didn't cost anything).
A change in your family/future might leave you with someone to re-gift it to
that will also appreciate the gun with it's history, as well as the caliber with all it's limitations.

Shooting it.
Seems like Weaver bases might be a fit. I recall some at .500 spacing.
One could also contact Leupold about buying 'Gunsmith bases' that would allow you
to fit a rear base and drill your own holes at the spacing needed.

Mine is a '49 standard grade. The Hornet serves it's purpose for me.
A rifle with ballistics considerably over a .22 MRF without the centerfire noise of a .223.
A Forster neck die would solve many of the case life problems.
Another option that increases case life (and improves ballistics) would
be to 'k' it out as was the case for many Hornets over the years.

By far the most expensive option is re-barreling to a .222.
You would be correct to re-barrel rather than re-chamber the .223 groove diameter Hornet barrel.
The barrel itself would be the easy thing to fetch up, it is the rest of the work that will
require the big shovel.

And the right person to do it. Hint - it won't be the guy at your LGS building ARs.

Finding a gunsmith to open up the Hornet bolt face might be a challenge in today's
litigious society.
That spring loaded cartridge feed guide on the bottom of the
bolt takes a lot of meat off the bolt face when using a larger diameter rim
(with a cartridge that operates at higher pressure).

Building and fitting a follower, altering the feed rails, fitting a new ejector, fitting the extractor,
re-working the bolt face to facilitate feeding, and refitting the bolt stop are all items to be addressed.

Good luck with your decisions, and thanks for sharing photos of a nice rifle.

JT

You've got a pre war super grade in .22 hornet (a super grade!) and your thinking of rechambering?
Oh dear Lord spare my eyes!
It would literally be a crime against humanity to mess with that gun.
On the rear scope base there is no standard screw spacing because that extra hole was drilled by a gunsmith. It was not factory.
Call Tally. They have 5 different bridge holes spacing for the pre war M70.

Depending on budget, consider a makeover.

How does it shoot? Why not send it to a reputable gunsmith like LongRifles Inc, chad is a big fan of win 70's and his work is top notch. I would consider keeping the original stock with a good bedding job, free float and refinish. If it is not a grear shooter, hang a new barrel in whatever caliber you want and get the receiver accurized. Save some money and put some nice glass on and make it your favorite rifle to shoot. After all, that is what guns are for, shooting!

As suggested id likely go to the K-hornet. Ive always wanted one tho.

A .22 Hornet is one of those rifles I've wanted for years. If I had your rifle I'd keep it and shoot it often.

jim in Anchorage said:

You've got a pre war super grade in .22 hornet (a super grade!) and your thinking of rechambering?
Oh dear Lord spare my eyes!

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That's what I was thinking............. I can't recall ever seeing one of those in person. Wonder how rare it is? (and what it's worth?) Get an appraisal and evaluation on it from someone real familiar with pre-war Mod. 70's before doing anything with it. That's a real piece of rifle history there. Do your homework extensively before proceeding. Bottom line is it's yours and you can do as you wish. But learn about it first so as not to have regrets later. Regarding the brass issue, the 22 Hornet case headspaces on the rim and many older rifles have chambers that are a little on the large size because back then hardly anyone reloaded. I've got a Savage Model 23D in 22 Hornet from the 1930's with one of those generous chambers and that's why I neck size only when reloading the Hornet and use a Lee factory crimp die to get good neck tension on those very thin Hornet neck walls. The Hornet's not a fire breathing long range varmint round but it was never meant to be. That's why things like the 220 Swift and the 22-250 were developed in the 1930's. I never use the Hornet past about 100-125 yds. but it's a sweet little, mild mannered cartridge within its range.

The amount of money you will spend on rechambering that rifle will equal the cost of a new off the rack rifle. And you will be destroying a piece of history that is a family heirloom.


Leave it alone. Someday a son, grandson, nephew, with an appreciation for history will be so very happy that you left it alone. Maintain it well, shoot it some, or don't. But don't hack a scope onto that thing or ruin the barrel.

IndianaBoy said:

The amount of money you will spend on rechambering that rifle will equal the cost of a new off the rack rifle. And you will be destroying a piece of history that is a family heirloom.


Leave it alone. Someday a son, grandson, nephew, with an appreciation for history will be so very happy that you left it alone. Maintain it well, shoot it some, or don't. But don't hack a scope onto that thing or ruin the barrel.

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I have no problem with the scope idea, it's already had been non factory drilled and tapped so no hacking. Now if he wanted to drill a virgin receiver that's different. Very few of the pre war 70s exist that haven't been drilled.

I'd leave the finish as is. Find or make a scope base for it. You can get Weaver rails and cut and drill to fit. Put a vintage 8-10 power scope on it. Then go shoot it! The Hornet is a lot easier to load for these days with Hodgdons Lil"gun powder. Velocity and accuracy are great with it. Enjoy it for what it is. Theres not a lot of them around. Good shooting.

That rifles has collector value, that goes away if you re-finish or re-chamber it. If you are keeping it in the family, it may someday end up in the hands of someone who LOVES the .22 Hornet. The ammo is cheap, I see PPU ammo all over the place for $24 for a box of fifty. Good ammo, too. Shoots around an inch at a hundred in my two Savage model 23Ds . And the Hornet is easier on barrel life than any other center fire rifle round I can think of.

Follow Scooter22s advice and shoot the snot out of it.!

I would find a set of scope mounts to fit the existing holes and put an old gloss finish redfield 3x9 or luepold or the like and shoot it. As others said even if 22 hornet is not your thing a kid or grandkid may love it. I sure would. If I ever passed down a gun with that much family history I would tell them if they ever need money for something come to me first, don't sell it!

I'd bet some good money that your barrel is designed for the .224" bullets, as only some very early Hornet chambered factory stuff were set up for the .223's, and years ago lots of Hornets were custom built using .223" barrels. The Hornet began as a wildcat in the 1920's and became so popular that Winchester began producing Hornet ammo in 1930 before they even began producing rifles that chambered it. Winchester first chambered the Hornet in their Model 54 bolt action, the forerunner of the Model 70 and by the time the Model 70 was introduced the Hornet was pretty much standardized as we see it today. If that rifle were a Model 54 it could be possible to be a .223" maybe? Being a Model 70 I say .224" ......... but it sure wouldn't hurt to have it professionally checked just to settle things once and for all.

The traits that hurt collector value increase it's sentimental value. That is a fine rifle with a long family history, I'd not change a thing even if the modifications made it unusable. Find a scope mount that fits, or even have those holes filled and new ones drilled and tapped for a mount that works with it. Then use it as much, or little as you please, but please pass it down in as close to original as possible.

Take the money you'd have spent to rebarrel and buy another rifle that more suits your needs. There are a lot of sub $400 rifles out there now that will easily out shoot this family heirloom.

Outfitter540 said:

You see, cost isn't an issue. I have a collection of expensive unoriginal rifles that will shoot circles around this thing. The point I was getting at is I am not going to add any significant family history to this rifle in it's current condition.

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Wait wait wait. You're not going to add any significant family history to the rifle in its current condition? You're not supposed to. It already has its family history. It's your gun. Do what you want. But if that gun were my great grandfathers, I wouldn't alter it at ALL. Why would you? It's a fine gun. There's nothing wrong with it. There's people here who know more about firearms than I ever will. And they're telling you not to. I'm telling you not to. Shoot it, but shoot it as your great grandfather did. It's a rare gun. One of a kind actually.

If you ruin that gun, I'll unfriend you on Facebook.

Outfitter540 said:

All, thank you for your thought out replies. I expected the cries of heresy at the thought of re-barreling. To that end there is just too much that would need to change for it to be possible. Every part is unique to the hornet.

When I previously shot this rifle some, I had an ill fitting weaver base at the rear with a cheap scope mounted on top. The pre 64 weaver base is not designed to work with the pre-war's bridge trench, and it was 0.435" screw spacing so I only used 1 screw. Obviously not a robust or proper setup, but hey I was a kid at the time. I would like to put a proper mount on this rifle. Perhaps if someone has a one piece base on their pre-64, they could measure between the holes across the action for me in the off chance that one was placed correctly?

I do reload for my centerfire target rifles, so I am familiar with the process. My comment on the hornet being a brass killer is (as pointed out) to the thin case walls and the generally oversized chambers. Also the fact that if pushed, I would probably get split cases left and right? I am assuming the barrel is .223; this means I cant use these fancy new .224 bullets correct?

-Nick

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I have post war-pre 64 70s I could measure the spacing on, but that wouldn't do you a bit of good. I have pre war 70s I could measure.That wouldn't help you ether. The post war guns are standardized spacing, the pre wars are what ever Some gunsmith decided. Again I empathize, the pre war guns did NOT come with two bridge holes. Someone added a extra.
The base must fit the trench as you call it. No post war base will work, it must be specific to pre wars.
Back many moons ago I was able to buy pre war 2 piece bases from leopold and redfield (must be 2 piece-the 1 piece will not work ) that perfectly fit the bridge recesse. But on 2 guns the hole spacing was wrong.
So I drilled out one hole on the base to a common screw size above the diameter of the countersink and tapped it, then ran a screw in and ground it flush top and bottom. Then I was able to drill my new hole where I needed it.
Alas those leopold and redfield bases are no longer avilable.
But I have your same problem as I have a drilled pre war that needs bases. Control and Tally still make bases that fit the pre war bridge recesse. I didn't have my spacing handy when I called, but Conetrol makes only one spacing, tally offers 5. So call them with your specs.
And what ever you do please don't do as suggested above and redrill and tap your $3000 gun to fit a $40 scope base.
Edit to above: I would not be wildly concerned to run only one screw in the rear base as long as the base fits the bridge snugly. It is, after all, a 8 1/2 pound .22 hornet

BigBore44 said:

If you ruin that gun, I'll unfriend you on Facebook.

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I was thinking bust his fingers, but I can't keep up with you kids

I would not change a thing even if I didn't like the cartridge. That Hornet worked for your grandfather and I see no reason why it wouldn't work today. Heck, I'd put it back together and shoot .22 Hornets every chance I had. May not be a 1000 yard cartridge but it has it's place. I'd order dies and components and learn all I could about reloading it. That would be a real tribute to your grandfather.

I reloads for my two Savage 23Ds. Now, those guns were (are) cheaply made with the low budget shooter in mind. I get seven or eight reloadings from a fired factory case. My point is this: If a cheaply made Savage could have a nice tight chamber.....I'm sure a pre-war Model 70 would also have one. Yes, Hornet brass is thin, but it doesn't have to contain much pressure. You might be surprised at how many reloadings you get.