midland man
Member
so guys my savage axis 243 has a twist rate of 9:1/8in so whats the lightest and heaviest bullets I can use that will stabilize?
Handloading for Savage 110 in 243
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It should actually be 1-9 1/4, which is savage standard...not that it honestly maters much.
Ive run everything from 65grn Vmax to 100grn sierra btsps with not issues. Vlds upto 95grns will be no issue.
The only bullets you may have accuracy problems with are the 105+ vld types, the 115s almost for sure wont stabilize, but the 105/107s may.
Ive run everything from 65grn Vmax to 100grn sierra btsps with not issues. Vlds upto 95grns will be no issue.
The only bullets you may have accuracy problems with are the 105+ vld types, the 115s almost for sure wont stabilize, but the 105/107s may.
I worry less about weight on the screamers and more about jacket quality and purpose, a 55 btip will BLAZE out there while a 55 dogtown will disintigrate if pushed to hard with the faster twist. Ideally I like 3 .243 rifles, a 1:10 24" for blasting 55-100 gr varmint to standard pro hunters, a 1:8 26" for 85-107 gr pills, and a standard ruger-savage barrel twist (1:9-1:9.25, 1:9 1/8 including Remington but even though own a couple I do not foresee any more Remington purchases in my future) with a length 20-22" for quality 55-103 eldx (yet to test the eldx) as a dedicated deer and occasional plinker sporter type. In your shoes (and I'm awful close with the remmy bbl) I'd Max out in the 103 pushed hard and experiment with quality 55 gr, or move up to cheap 60-70 gr as my scorchers.
With a 24" bbl hodgdon seats ye olde amax at 2.76 with a compressed Max load of h1000 getting 2930fps. Using this minus 50 fps for your 22" bbl and a temp of 59 degrees with barometric pressure of 29.92 (just guesstimate cuz idk your conditions) bullet length 1.249" (your measured .208+ JBM listed length of a ph at 1.041" JBM lists the Berger hunting vld 105 at 1.235") both results listed respectively: 1.085 stability factor marginally stable yellow warning sign, and 1.122 marginally stable yellow warning sign. That being said I HAVE used a 1.2 to success, but never as well as better ratings and of course warmer temperatures in general will get better stability. Berger target hybrid listed length of 1.282" rated at 1.005 yellow ewwww, I personally would pass.
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Tinybob
Member
I cut a case neck as you described, and pushed a bullet in with the lands. Came up with 2.963". The base of the bullet was just past the shoulder/neck junction. Backing up to 2.950" and loading a start load with H1000. I'll see in a few days how that goes.
Sounds good im curious how your loads turn out. ive kinda wanted another shot at the .243, or maybe a 6mm rem, but i was thinking id go with a 1-8 twist to shoot the pencil bullets better.
so i went and sat at the computer, so much for my nap....
Heres some quickloads data, as always take it with a grain of salt.
Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 105, Berger Hybrid #24433
Useable Case Capaci: 49.949 grain H2O = 3.243 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.950 inch = 74.93 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 88 40.00 2290 1222 28888 9861 84.3 1.543
-18.0 90 41.00 2355 1293 31002 10256 86.2 1.499
-16.0 92 42.00 2421 1367 33284 10640 88.0 1.457
-14.0 94 43.00 2488 1443 35752 11011 89.7 1.415
-12.0 97 44.00 2556 1523 38423 11365 91.3 1.372
-10.0 99 45.00 2624 1605 41319 11701 92.8 1.324
-08.0 101 46.00 2693 1691 44462 12015 94.2 1.278
-06.0 103 47.00 2762 1779 47877 12304 95.4 1.234
-04.0 105 48.00 2832 1870 51596 12567 96.5 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 108 49.00 2902 1963 55652 12799 97.5 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 50.00 2972 2059 60082 13000 98.3 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 112 51.00 3042 2157 64938 13166 99.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 52.00 3112 2258 70270 13296 99.5 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 116 53.00 3182 2360 76140 13386 99.8 0.998 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 119 54.00 3252 2465 82618 13435 100.0 0.963 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 121 55.00 3321 2572 89796 13446 100.0 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 50.00 3136 2292 73394 12643 100.0 1.020 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 50.00 2747 1760 48603 12429 90.9 1.227
so i went and sat at the computer, so much for my nap....
Heres some quickloads data, as always take it with a grain of salt.
Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 105, Berger Hybrid #24433
Useable Case Capaci: 49.949 grain H2O = 3.243 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.950 inch = 74.93 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 88 40.00 2290 1222 28888 9861 84.3 1.543
-18.0 90 41.00 2355 1293 31002 10256 86.2 1.499
-16.0 92 42.00 2421 1367 33284 10640 88.0 1.457
-14.0 94 43.00 2488 1443 35752 11011 89.7 1.415
-12.0 97 44.00 2556 1523 38423 11365 91.3 1.372
-10.0 99 45.00 2624 1605 41319 11701 92.8 1.324
-08.0 101 46.00 2693 1691 44462 12015 94.2 1.278
-06.0 103 47.00 2762 1779 47877 12304 95.4 1.234
-04.0 105 48.00 2832 1870 51596 12567 96.5 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 108 49.00 2902 1963 55652 12799 97.5 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 50.00 2972 2059 60082 13000 98.3 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 112 51.00 3042 2157 64938 13166 99.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 52.00 3112 2258 70270 13296 99.5 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 116 53.00 3182 2360 76140 13386 99.8 0.998 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 119 54.00 3252 2465 82618 13435 100.0 0.963 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 121 55.00 3321 2572 89796 13446 100.0 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 50.00 3136 2292 73394 12643 100.0 1.020 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 50.00 2747 1760 48603 12429 90.9 1.227
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midland man
Member
thanks guys and didn't mean to hijack this thread but since we are on the subject of the 243 I was going to tell you I been using the sierra prohunters part# 1540 these are 100gr sp flat base and I load 37.6gr win 760 powder as my rifle really likes this load! but was wondering about lighter bullets for varmint use so thanks again for the help! plus do any of you use this bullet I load and shoot, the sierra 100gr prohunters?
Ummmmm yup but with h1000 and absolutely love them! They're a default for us here, currently playing with etips and 4451, next I'm trying the 100 gamekings and then the 103 eldx
JeffG
Member
I'm running a Savage Predator Max 10.
I prep my 243 brass as follows:
trim, size, neck anneal, turn case necks, uniform primer pockets and deburr flash holes. Weigh your cases.
Buy lots of 100 cases , choose your most uniform 40 cases. Shoot those exclusively, till they exhausted, work up another 40.
I have great results with Federal Cartridge brass, Remington 9 1/2 primers, and H380 powder for 100 gr level bullets. I run about 85% of max, accuracy is great, cases last forever.
Yeah i did in my .243 infront of h4350, and in my 6x47rem. Its a great bullet with a good range of performance
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Tinybob
Member
Don't be concerned about asking questions or making comments on any thread I post. I'd like to think we're all friends here with common interests. You might ask questions that I would like to know the answer to,but didn't think to ask. Or have good info that could help us all.
midland man
Member
thanks and very much appreciate it!
Sierra Bullets does no prep nor sort by weight on all their cases used to test their bullets. Match ones shoot under 1/2 MOA at 200 yards all day long.
JeffG
Member
+1 on all Sierra bullets. Hornady Vmax shoot very well also.
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Tinybob
Member
Ok first test of 105gr Berger hybrids didn't go so hot. Probably not going to work in this barrel. Every shot key-holed. They did group by twos though.
Opinions on trying any further in this barrel?
Opinions on trying any further in this barrel?
JeffG
Member
Either push them harder, or try another bullet. Maybe, somewhere down the road, try Hornady 87 gr VMax, over 37 grs of H380. Good stuff.
Even driving them faster i doubt youll get them to stabilize if they are producing full one keyholes. But it might be worth the effort. Sometimes you get lucky sometimes you dont.
The standard 105 vlds might be an option, but my .243 topped out with 95s.
That said, my buddy shot the remainder of the 105s i tried in his gun (older 110 .243) and they did fine, go figgure.
The standard 105 vlds might be an option, but my .243 topped out with 95s.
That said, my buddy shot the remainder of the 105s i tried in his gun (older 110 .243) and they did fine, go figgure.
Yup. Got wonderful accuracy in 3 different barrels with federal fusion, with the 788, was all over the place at 100 yds, at 50 yds found the keyholes, guess which gun is dedicated to shorter bullets? My vote is to save em for a rebarrel or sell what's left for something worth the powder.
Was his barrel longer?
he had a bvss so 26" (i think) compared to my regular 22". Velocity was only about 80fps faster tho. H4350 isnt ideal for those bullets and getting top velocity, especially in longer tubes.
midland man
Member
that's why I suggest using the sierra prohunter part# 1540 100gr and try the Winchester 760 powder I use 37.6gr of this powder and my savage axis likes this one! not sayin yours will but I bet you might find a treat! if you are willing here I got my sierra reloading manual out and the starting load is 36.0grs and max is 39.2grs of Winchester 760 powder using this sierra 100gr sp flat base be sure to bevel your case mouth slightly to ease the bullets in without shaving them as I use a rcbs deburing tool to bevel the case mouth of burs plus it puts cuts a angle to the case mouth and it doesn't take much to do it! this data is out of my older sierra edition 5, 2nd printing on page 307 and so also I use cci large rifle magnum primers as well to help ignite the powder much better!
JeffG
Member
+1 Midland Man, you are right. All other things aside, Sierra Pro Hunters in all my calibers, with the BC I want, are so accurate and reliable they are almost boring.
Measure the barrels bore diameter.
Looks to me like you're shooting 24 caliber bullets in a 26 caliber barrel.
That happened years ago when someone shot 243 Win ammo in a 260 Rem barrel. 7-08 in a 308.
Same thing shooting 270 win ammo in a 30-06 barrel; that's been done.
midland man
Member
also rate of twist was wrong and can cause keyholes! plus I have found in most cases the starting loads or slightly above are most accurate but there are rare cases where near or at max loads do produce exceptional accuracy but not all the time! always start at the bottom and work up until the tightest groups or what your looking for is found, accuracy is better than speed!!
How much twist change causes bullets to keyhole?
Instead, I look at the largest groups. Then go with the load having the smallest one. That best represents what all shots will do.
I ignore tightest groups of several shot. They don't represent where all fired shots will go; just a few of them.
Instead, I look at the largest groups. Then go with the load having the smallest one. That best represents what all shots will do.
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