Bypassing North Carolina CHL Course Requirements

I am considering moving to North Carolina from Washington state. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and sadly due to the insane cost of living and endless amount of crazy liberal politics that seem to be encroaching upon us here, I am going to be moving out of the region.

Being a native Oregonian, I do feel like North Carolina has a lot to offer and is a beautiful and forested state just like where I came from.

Anyway, I guess for the time being the Pacific Northwest still has pretty lax gun laws, especially in regards to conceal carry. I see many of the states in the South require long 8-hour NRA gun courses, written exams and you even may have to hire some type of 3rd party company to assist you with acquiring the license.

I am not a fan of conceal carry licenses, being more Liberty and Constitutional minded person. EVen though the liberals here are fighting to ban guns and conceal carry, for the time being the laws are pretty nice. I've never had to complete long courses and do challenging written exams to be able to exercise my 2A rights. I've heard NOrth Carolina is fighting to change these laws and go Constitutional Carry, but for the time being I guess I am stuck with the system that is in place.

I will say that I took an 8-hour NRA course from Oregon Firearm's Academy, but it was about 6 or 7 years ago now. I still have the certificate. I also took a couple gun safety and education courses when I got my previous Oregon CHL and Utah CFP permits.

As of now, I have two concealed handgun licenses. A Washington state CHL and an Idaho CWL, which is recognized in over 30 states as a non-resident, I believe from the reciprocity maps I am looking at.

My question is the following. First, is there anything I can do to avoid having to take all these courses and pay all these fees to get a North Carolina concealed handgun permit? I was reading that North Carolina has some type of online application where you can apply online and bypass all the range and course requirements. I'm not sure if this is accurate or if I was misinformed there.

Second question, I am reading North Carolina recognizes conceal handgun licenses from almost every state, including Washington and Idaho. Would then, I even be required to get a North Carolina concealed handgun license? I know some states will recognize an out of state license from even a resident of that sate. But, some states , including Washington require you to have a concealed handgun license from the state if you are a resident of the state. What would be the law in North Carolina in this regard?

Final question, would the 8-hour NRA course I took at Oregon Firearm's Academy count towards a concealed handgun permit in North Carolina? Or, does it have to be taken in state or have to be taken within a certain number of years? If I could just show them my certificate for the NRA Defensive Handgun course I took, that would be easy enough. That course cost me quite a bit of money and don't have the funds and time right now, as I am between jobs.

I appreciate whatever information people can give me and will try to make a call to Sheriff department in Charlotte area (Where I am thinking of moving). However, sometimes I don't always get a great answer from the local LE agency, so it is good to hear other people's advice who live in the area and may have been in similar situations.

hdwhit said:

You didn't say where you were going in North Carolina.

Forrested, rugged terrain is about where the similarities end. North Carolina, culturally and politically speaking, is vastly different from Oregon, particularly the further west you go in the state.

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Ironically, Western Oregon outside of Portland and Eugene are fairly conservative areas. Of course, culturally there will be some differences, Northwesterners and Southerners. Although, North Carolina has had a huge influx of people from around the country just as Oregon has. Only like 50% from the state are native Oregonians anymore. For the most part Oregon is a very rural state with a large population of farmers, ranchers, loggers, fisherman and of course hippies

hdwhit said:

For your greatest happiness, your attitude towards your new home needs to be to immerse yourself in that culture, adopt it and learn to conform to it. A good place to start would be taking the state CHL course and getting a North Caroline license.

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Hdwhit.. I would love to respect the culture, way of life and everything else of North Carolina. However, one area where I may have some opposing feelings will be when local laws violate those I believe are constitutional laws. Me not wanting to take the CHL course has nothing to do with disrespecting North Carolina or its people. Rather, I feel as a law-abiding and tax-paying American citizen that owning and carrying a gun should be a right , rather than a privilege I have to earn. If tomorrow, North Carolina passed an Assault Weapon Ban or Handgun Ban would you say I should respect the AWB if North Carolina passed the law? I may follow it, but would do so begrudgingly and only for fear of going to prison.

BSA1 said:

Why are you opposed to taking a Conceal Carry Course in North Carolina? The laws are different than Washington State and may save you a lot of legal trouble down the road.

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Yes, I have no problem taking an 8 hour course and in fact, even though it was not required in Oregon, I did spend over $300 and an entire day on my own dime (the LEO people had their agencies pay for the course) taking the Oregon Firearm Academy Defensive Pistol course and receiving that certificate. This has nothing to do with not wanting to take a course like this or disrespecting North Carolinans, rather it has more to do with respecting our Constitution and the laws and liberties all American citizens are given.

I have moral and ethical issues with having to jump through so many hoops in order for me to have the very rights that were suppose to be guaranteed in our Constitution. It appears many of the good residents of North Carolina agree with me and are pushing for "Constitutional Carry". In Oregon and Washington, we are essentially Constitutional Carry and Idaho is 100% Constitutional Carry. I guess I am sad to lose a freedom I had.

My original question was just to see if there was a "legal" means to not have to take these courses. There is some other ethical issues I have with North Carolina's permit system that I feel are unconstitutional. For example, why do they need to contact my physician? I am assuming they want to have some type of mental evaluation. This to me is a great threat to my freedom, as my right to carry a gun is now at the mercy of some medical professional reference to the Sheriff department. Would a single phone call or written letter be all it takes for me to be denied a license? I still am wanting to learn more about why North Carolina requires a family physician and personal references to contact. Is this a formality or is this a very serious requirement? Do I require local references as I do not know any people in North Carolina who I can list as a reference.

RKBA is not negotiable in my book and having an assessment by the state of North Carolina makes me uncomfortable, especially since I am a law-abiding citizen who has committed no felonies and has not had any violent, stalking or domestic violence Misdemeanors. Do I have to agree with all North Carolina's laws to be a resident in the state? I hope not.. That is what makes America a free country and questioning rules is not always a bad thing in my opinion.

As well I am vehemently opposed to requiring people to purchase a permit just to buy a handgun. If you pass a federal background check why should you be denied your right guaranteed by the Constitution?

Please note, that if I have no other choice I will certainly take the courses, medical examinations and whatever other rules and regulations they have. That doesn't mean I agree with them or even want to. But, I am a law-abiding citizen and do my best to follow state laws, even ones I don't agree with. I also have no problem paying the taxes, supporting the economy and I think supporting the freedoms and liberties of North Carolina people would hopefully make me a respected resident of that state.

bikemutt said:

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, advice from my dear mother. Look at it as an opportunity, not an obstacle. Positive.

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As I stated above bikemutt, I will do my best.. If this is the rules I will do what I can to follow the rules. Hope after all my efforts I don't get denied or have to spend another $500 in fees. I'm going to have to spend $300-400 just to register my car in North Carolina. Driving a car is a privilege, as they say. IT's sad that owning and carrying a gun has to be one too, when it's not suppose to be.

Good Ol' Boy said:

WOW. Living just a couple hours from the border and having spent much time there growing up, I had no idea their gun laws were so strict. Just an eye opener for me.

OP maybe consider VA. If you stay to the west it's very similar geography to NC and our guns laws are very lax compared to NC.

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Good Ol' Boy, I have to be honest I am not a big fan of North Carolina's gun laws. They seem to be improving and are step up from South Carolina. South Carolina's laws are so bad that I would not even want to live in that state. For example, their "Must Inform" law pretty much incriminates you from carrying anywhere.

I'd love to learn more about Virginia. I am going to North Carolina because it is a beautiful state, affordable to live and has a booming software and tech market. The gun laws are not perfect, but they are better than other places in the country and as I said seem to be improving. Places like Alexandria, VA have a pretty thriving software market, but are so expensive. I looked at Richmond that also has an emerging software market, but the crime rate there was a big deterrence. If there was a safe and affordable city with lots of IT jobs in Virginia I certainly would consider it. From scenery perspective, I am sure it is just as beautiful of a state as North Carolina and has a lot to offer.

larryh1108 said:

You do need 3 NC residents for references but you've been a member on these boards for 8 years so I am quite sure you know 3 NC residents who can help with that part.
(hint)

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I understand that once you have the permit that you then will be granted what appears to be full 2nd Amendment rights (or as close to that as you can get). Southern states have rules like "No Gun Signs" bear weight of law, etc, which I am not fond of, but willing to accept. However, the process of acquiring the permit seems to be a bit disturbing. For example, I do not know 3 members from North Carolina on this forum, despite being here for 8-9 years. I do not usually post on The High Road forum, but spend more time on my local forum of NorthwestFirearms. If I cannot find 3 people to vouch for my integrity then am I denied my constitutional rights in North Carolina, despite having people vouching for your integrity is not listed anywhere as a requirement to keep and bear arms. To me this is a gross infringement on my liberties. So, despite being a law abiding citizen, going through all background checks, I am now denied my right because I do not have 3 people who will have a conversation with law enforcement advocating that I am a "Trustworthy" person. I am sorry , but this does not seem like a "Shall Issue" but a "May Issue" state and forcing me to require 3 other persons to support me being able to exercise my constitutional rights seriously feels like a violation of my privacy and feels like a draconian requirement that is used as a means to circumvent due process and federal laws. I guess since most states could give two craps less about the 2nd Amendment, I should just stop complaining and play the system. However, I would prefer to be in a state that respects my liberties and doesn't make me jump through all types of hoops. What you have told me is owning and carrying a gun in North Carolina is not a Right, but rather a privilege and you must prove to the state of North Carolina you are worthy of the privilege, therefore making the 2nd Amendment nullified and void in North Carolina. I am at the mercy of a set of rules and laws of the state North Carolina. I agree North Carolina does not have the rigorous and draconian laws of the Northeastern states.

Maybe, being from the Northwest I grew up spoiled that gun rights were never really questioned. That was until all the people moved here from around the country and were terrified to see all these "backwards" NOrthwestern people being able to have so much freedom to defend themselves, not have to depend on the authority of the government. Now, of course they are advocating for installing all the government controls to protect people from themselves.

Sorry, I am a bit frustrated.. I guess I was under some impression that these Southeastern states were bastions of freedom, but I have been humbled and can see there are plenty of obstacles.

I am actually thinking now I will not move to North Carolina. In addition to having a challenging permitting system, there also seems to be no rifle ranges that are open to new members and that do not have excessive amounts of rules and restrictions. If I move to Charlotte it appears that I will be stuck going to expensive indoor ranges that don't even let me use my own ammo. For a state that I thought was very pro-gun I was shocked to see there is only a fraction of gun ranges in Charlotte area as in Seattle, which has a reputation as being a fairly anti-gun metro area. I was very disappointed to see the rules at Charlotte Rifle and Pistol club. It's almost like you have to go through a fraternal rites of passage to be allowed to shoot a rifle at that range. They make you certify every rifle you bring to the range and you require a certification and qualification session with a Range Certifier (this is their terminology, never heard it before) to be allowed to shoot guns at their range. In addition to their large amount of strict rules they also make you pay $800 to join. That is insane and there is nothing particularly special about this range that I can see; it only goes out to 300 yards. Other clubs I see say you must be friends with 3 other members who then will vouch for you and advocate that you can join the club.

After doing some research, I am actually quite stumped where people in North Carolina even shoot their rifles as it seems like there is very few rifle ranges in the state at all. Maybe it's a state where people just shoot on their own or friend's property's. It could be paradise for locals who grew up there and have network of friends, but for outsiders and newcomers it essentially means you will be stuck in crappy and expensive indoor ranges. It appears most everywhere are just indoor pistol ranges and most of them force you to use their ammo and charge high fees.

I feel bad about my decision as I think North Carolina is a beautiful state, has a good economy, affordable and I heard the people there are friendly. But the lack of places to shoot and strict gun permitting rules just seems to be a major turn-off.

larryh1108 said:

Frontline Defense, north of the Triangle, has a 2 1000yd ranges.
http://www.ncgunowners.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=61698

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WOW!!! That has to be the best gun range I have ever seen in my life.. Multiple 1000 yard ranges and they allow draw pistol shooting, rapid fire, 50 cals,fully autos , etc

Sounds like you have a gem there. The Raleigh/Durham area may be a better option for me than Charlotte anyway, as that is where the Research Triangle Park is and is one of the leading IT hubs in the country which is good for me.

The only issue is I hear Raleigh/Durham is fairly liberal and very expensive area to live. Charlotte seemed more like a real city with a downtown area and I thought it would be more conservative and the cost of living looked a bit less. I also liked its proximity to the mountains. I guess I will have to kiss goodbye mountain scenery for a while if I live in Raleigh/Durham area. It's ok for now, because I am more worried about survival than enjoying myself for the time being. I've even considered living in Dallas, Texas, but the lack of scenery and outdoor activities, as well as fiercely hot weather have made it a place I will only move if I have to.

I am not too happy about the 3 references issue, but well, if I do move to North Carolina I guess I will just say my prayers and hope I don't have problems. Where to find 3 people who will write letters to the Sheriff on my behalf? The whole concept seems a bit sickening to me, but I guess I just have to accept it. If I am denied my a conceal handgun license I probably would leave the state as soon as possible; which would suck. I guess Virginia to the North and Tennessee to the West are bit more gun friendly, but not so good with software jobs and cost of living.


I joined the Carolina Shooters Club, but the forum seems very slow and not many members. I will have to check out the NCGO site you suggested.

Thanks again for all this detailed information, it has been helpful.

BSA, nobody should ever underestimate the gun laws and politics of a state before moving there. For example, who would have thought that all their 16+ round magazines would suddenly become illegal in Colorado, tHe home of Magpul? Yet, if anyone paid attention they could see that the liberal anti-gun politics were constantly escalating and the state was pushing more and more for bans. For example, the city of Denver it is illegal (I believe a felony) to carry any semi auto, magazine fed rifle into the city.


It is strange to think that Texas has fairly regressive (more strict) gun laws than other states. We always think of Texas as being gun friendly and gun toting state. I do believe many Texans are indeed very gun loving and the large number of ranges in the state probably attests to this fact. However, there is definitely a good number of anti-2A politicians in the state and the state actually has had some of the most restrictive gun control policies in the country until recently. It is hard to believe Washington has had open carry for decades before Texas. Nobody thinks about Washington as being a gun-toting or gun friendly state, although it really is, outside the Seattle area. But still nobody associates Washington with guns, even though I have seen more people open carry in Washington state (the smaller cities/towns) than I did even Idaho or Montana.


As far as laws, I make it my business to sit and read the gun laws from the government web site of every state I think I will be moving to. I have still been pondering North Carolina, but will be taking an even deeper look and review at their gun laws if I decide to make the move there.

BSA, Texas has quite a few rigorously anti-2A laws for a state that is promoted as being the bastion of freedom, liberty and gun loving. The fact that Texas No Gun Signs can result in a Weapons offense which would essentially remove your rights to own or carry firearms is a serious strike against Texas and other states that impose these unconstitutional measures. I know Texas is moving in the right direction and I am happy to see that. Washington, despite being one of the most gun friendly states in the country is striving to go in the other direction. A good portion of the Pacific Northwest now is populated with Californians, Illinois, New York/New Jersey people who religiously promote every anti-gun cause since it coincides with some type of ethical/moral belief. These same people make jokes about how horrible and crime-ridden the places they came from, yet seem to need to "fix" the place they live that doesn't have all these problems. The irony of it all.

Meplat 308 said:

You could just move to New Hampshire, Constitutional carry - (along with Vermont & Maine), no income tax, no sales tax, no knife restrictions and that's just to start.

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If it wasn't for the brutal winters I would seriously consider NH or Maine. VT, despite the lenient gun laws has way too high of taxes and I would be raped there if I was to get a decent paying job and I don't hear its a cheap place to live either. Another issue with the upper Northeast is Lyme Disease. I love hiking. Although I wouldn't let that alone deter me. I will say that New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont are gorgeous states and have respectable gun laws. Another issue I think I would have living in a place like New Hampshire or Maine is transporting my guns up there. You have to travel through the Police-States of New York, Massachusetts etc to get to these states, which means you would have to ship all your guns there and have them transferred to you via FFL (most likely), which would be quite expensive. Not a deal breaker, but an additional pain.