Muzzle Loader Rookie.

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Southerntrev

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Hi everyone. I'm new to Blackpowder shooting and I'm having issues with loading a replica Remington Zouve I inherited afew years ago. I'm using conical projectiles and having great difficulty getting them started. I've always been told never put my hand over the end of the rod when trying to ram but with lube on my hand it's almost impossible to get it started. Not to mention embarrassing when demonstrating to the great unknowing! Makes 'em nervous!
Do I need to use wadding and grease/lube? Or can I get away with just the wadding.
 
The proper sized skirted minie ball (which is conical in shape) should slide down the barrel easily with the ramrod. No wadding is used. You could also load a patched round ball which should be a fairly tight fit. I'm guessing it's a .58 cal.
 
The .58 caliber imports can vary. The Mini-Balls may run from .570 to .577 any where in between. Keep your loads below maximum. Over loading a Mini-Ball can blow the gas seal "Skirt" off lodging in the breech. This requires removing the breech plug. When using a patched round ball the .564" with a 0015" patch is often a could choice. You may also need a short starter to load you current Mini-Ball.

http://www.possibleshop.com/s-s-short-starter.html
 
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Was the bore clean? My first muzzleloading rifle was rescued from a pawnshop. The bore was in awful shape and it made loading difficult. The projectile would slide easily for a few inches, then bind, then slide a bit farther and then bind again. I spent a lot of time scrubbing and scraping accumulated crud out of the barrel and it got better but not as good as a new barrel. Since you inherited a used gun, it would not hurt to do some concentrated cleaning to make sure caked fouling isn't part of your problem.
 
Was the bore clean? My first muzzleloading rifle was rescued from a pawnshop. The bore was in awful shape and it made loading difficult. The projectile would slide easily for a few inches, then bind, then slide a bit farther and then bind again. I spent a lot of time scrubbing and scraping accumulated crud out of the barrel and it got better but not as good as a new barrel. Since you inherited a used gun, it would not hurt to do some concentrated cleaning to make sure caked fouling isn't part of your problem.
Very good advise. The rifled muskets can be badly leaded. I use Sweet's 7.62 to remove the lead fouling.
 
If the Minie conicals won't even start down the bore with a little finger pressure I'd say you're running too large a size. As the folks are saying they should slide down relatively easily. You may need to look into finding a different size or look into a push through sizer you can use if you are making your own to swage them down a whisp.

You also are asking about using grease or lube. Are the conicals you are using not already lubed? There should be pretty generous lube grooves that are filled with a BP compatible lube to aid in resisting leading up and fouling of the bore. If the conicals are starting OK but binding part way in then you really do need to use some sort of lube. If not pan lubed ahead of time then smeared into the grooves just before you start it down the bore.
 
Cheers guys. I've been using home made patches out of old linen shirts. As well as greasing them up. I thought that patches were needed for any muzzleloader. My bad...
 
Cheers guys. I've been using home made patches out of old linen shirts. As well as greasing them up. I thought that patches were needed for any muzzleloader. My bad...
There's your problem right there. Hollow-based Minie balls are not supposed to be patched. They expand to fill the rifling when fired. Back in the day, these were loaded with paper cartridges. You would bite off the end of the cartridge, pour the powder down the barrel, follow that with the bullet (base down), and ram the charge. The paper could be rammed on top of the charge, or simply be discarded.
 
"The paper could be rammed on top of the charge"

Can you clarify? Do you mean powder, paper, bullet? Or powder, bullet, paper? I have only shot patched round balls but I always thought with paper cartridges you put the powder in first, followed by the crumpled paper, then put the bullet on top.
 
Take a look at this vid....how easy to eat the Minnie


For the loading and firing....he made it faster by pre measuring the powder and putting it in a "paper sleeve" along with the ball.

You can measure out the amount of black powder and pour down the barrel
Good starting point 70 grains 2f.....can work your way up or down for accuracy
 
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Can you clarify? Do you mean powder, paper, bullet? Or powder, bullet, paper? I have only shot patched round balls but I always thought with paper cartridges you put the powder in first, followed by the crumpled paper, then put the bullet on top.
You have to consider how paper cartridges were made. The paper was wrapped around a former (dowel) and glued. The former was removed and a bullet inserted into the tube. The bullet end was cinched closed with a couple of turns of string, and tied off. Then the other end was filled with the powder charge and the "tail" of the cartridge was simply folded over.

In use, the "tail" end was bitten off and the powder poured down the barrel. What happened next depended on the type of bullet. With the early round balls, or "buck and ball," the whole tied-off (bullet) end of the cartridge was rammed down the barrel. With Minie balls, you would have to load the bare bullet, so it would have to be popped out of the paper. You could then stuff the remaining paper down the barrel, or not. With a clean barrel, and a loose-fitting Minie, it might be a good idea to ram the paper on top of the bullet, to keep it from sliding out if the barrel was inverted. If the bore was fouled, this wouldn't be a problem.
 
- Sloppily grease up the Minie's sides with plain old Crisco (cut 1:3 Beeswax/Crisco if you have Beeswax as well)
- Pour 60gr of 2F down the bore (premeasured)
- Run the Naked/Greased (NO PATCH) bullet down the bore -- use fingers only on the sides of the ramrod all the way down.

** Rifled Muskets/Minies were -- by definition -- designed to run without a patch **
 
The general N-SSA rule of thumb for starting is to size to .001 below bore diameter. Charge is 45 grains of 3Fg.

The alternative would be about a .575 round ball, patched to fit...but the Zouaves were made for Minies.
 
Cheers guys. I've been using home made patches out of old linen shirts. As well as greasing them up. I thought that patches were needed for any muzzleloader. My bad...

I've seen WAY worse. I shot with a guy who wanted to patch the balls in his '58 Remington copy. It took months to make him try a cylinderful without patches. He was running the correct diameter ball, and kept bending rammer assemblies. Funnier now than it was then.
 
The proper sized skirted minie ball (which is conical in shape) should slide down the barrel easily with the ramrod. No wadding is used. You could also load a patched round ball which should be a fairly tight fit. I'm guessing it's a .58 cal.
Yes it is.
 
Was the bore clean? My first muzzleloading rifle was rescued from a pawnshop. The bore was in awful shape and it made loading difficult. The projectile would slide easily for a few inches, then bind, then slide a bit farther and then bind again. I spent a lot of time scrubbing and scraping accumulated crud out of the barrel and it got better but not as good as a new barrel. Since you inherited a used gun, it would not hurt to do some concentrated cleaning to make sure caked fouling isn't part of your problem.
My late Father was an armourer for the NZ army and the Police AOS, our version of SWAT. He'd kept it and others in pretty spiffing condition.
 
Take a look at this vid....how easy to eat the Minnie


For the loading and firing....he made it faster by pre measuring the powder and putting it in a "paper sleeve" along with the ball.

You can measure out the amount of black powder and pour down the barrel
Good starting point 70 grains 2f.....can work your way up or down for accuracy

Bloody Norah! It's been taking me that long just to get the projectile started! This'll make life a heap easier thank you.
 
IF for whatever reason you find your conical "Minnie" bullets are a tad too small..., don't fret. I've seen CW rifled musket shooters wrap high quality, linen paper (check at an office supply store that sells high quality stationary paper) around the sides of the bullet, folding a bit of the edge into the base cone, to make "paper patched bullets", and they shoot quite well.

LD
 
I have a Lee ROA conical mold that seems to cast a bit small for my Classicbalistix cylinders so I put a steel bar on the top of the bullet and give it a tap with a relatively heavy hammer, with practice I've made consistent flat point bullets that fit snug enough to stay in place, and when weighed and grouped within 5gr. groups are very accurate off the bench, best loads are 30 gr. 3F.
 
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